I’ve known Colin Bell for quite some time. His work first came to my attention with the rather hilarious “Jonbot vs Martha“, which I first read on my phone while waiting for a plane in California and which caused a rather large set of giggles with but one strip. Since then, Colin and I have collaborated a lot, shooting scripts back and forth and giving each other critiques on just about everything we do (even eventually leading to us collaborating on a comic, as it so happens).
And since I’ve known him, Colin has done a lot — particularly starting his own imprint, Dogooder Comics, and self-releasing his first book with Neil Slorance, “Dungeon Fun,” who also illustrated “Jonbot” — a book we’ve both previewed and reviewed quite favorably. And with the success of “Dungeon Fun”and his work with Dogooder Comics only beginning, we felt it interesting to take one of our e-mail conversations out of gmail and to share it with all of you before Colin becomes too rich and famous to even talk to me about comics anymore.
Read on as we talk about his new book, the challenges of self-publishing and more.
So why comics?
Colin Bell: Because MONEY, Matthew.
So you and Neil have just done this wonderful little comic called DUNGEON FUN, and you have been working together for a while now. How did you two first meet up?
CB: Picture the scene: it’s Christmas 2010 and my best man is presenting my wife and I with a specially commissioned portrait of us on our wedding day… except I’m dressed as Daredevil and we’re standing on the rooftops of Hell’s Kitchen. Because I like Daredevil, see? I say it’s me dressed as Daredevil, but really under that mask, who can tell? Not I. The artist of this masterpiece? Neil Slorance.
SMASH CUT TO: Nine months later I’m starting a blog (It’s Bloggerin’ Time! RIP) and because I’m writing about this picture and my love of Daredevil, I email Neil to see if it’s cool that I share his work, BECAUSE EVEN IN 2011 PROPER IMAGE ATTRIBUTION WAS AS IMPORTANT AS IT IS TODAY. He says yes, we hit it off, I guest on his podcast as a “comics expert” (Push All the Buttons RIP), publicly devalue his comics collection, and soon we are friends. Comics ensue.
And that’s when you first did Jonbot vs Martha, correct? And if memory serves, you had trouble getting Neil to agree to make a comic in the first place?
CB: Some months later, sure. Jonbot Vs Martha was born, we sold it as “Kramer Vs Kramer meets Short Circuit” and then we did all our comics growing up in public, from two guys that had never made a comic all the way up to two guys that made a webcomic for a year and a bit. It’s pretty crazy to look at the first strip – the artwork and lettering – and compare it to the last one. And then it’s crazier still to compare that last strip to where we are now with Dungeon Fun. It feels like we’re moving in the right direction.
Neil took very little convincing, I’ve no idea where you get your information from.
Hey, I’m just going off this list of discussion points you gave me, though they’re generally self-loathing overall.
So after a successful, SICBA Award Losing run, what caused the decision to end Jonbot and move on to Dungeon Fun?
CB: Did I give you discussion points??!?!?!
No, I’m being sassy and deflecting for your poor answer. Now answer the question!
CB: The two weren’t that intertwined – after a year and a bit of Jonbot I think we were both a bit tired of the weekly grind we’d set ourselves up for, especially when we weren’t ever planning more than a week in advance and so had a mad scramble every weekend to write and draw it. So, we has a “second season” where we blitzed through every half-formed idea we ever had for the strip in a frenzy of nonsensical, freewheeling plots and tried to bring it to as natural a conclusion that a webcomic about a woman and her resurrected robot husband going through a divorce would allow.
Continued belowMonths passed, and out of the blue one day Neil posts a picture of a young adventurer girl online – a wee doodle he often returns to, so much so we’d spoken about trying to get a children’s book about her off the ground some time before. And he asked me if I want to write a comic around her. Well, how could I say no?
We agreed that it would be a love-letter to dungeon crawling videogames – Neil best summed it up at the time as “what if (titular protagonist of Luke Pearson’s sublime comics series) Hilda just had a massive sword?” We wanted to do something free of cynicism, and when we were batting ideas back and forth “Dungeon Fun” was just the subject of the email conversation. Eventually it stuck, and then it became our adventurer’s name as well, and although everyone’s just accepted that at face value we’ll explain it a bit more in future issues.
So you and Neil always had a pretty close working relationship, right? What’s the collaborative process like for you guys now, now that you’re doing a regular-sized comic book as opposed to weekly scramblestrips?
CB: EVEN WORSE.
For all the griping we both did about the pressure of working a page at a time on Jonbot, Dungeon Fun was made… one page at a time. Turns out it’s just how Neil likes to work.
I’d write him a page, send it to him, we’d go over breakdowns, he’d ink and colour it, I’d take the chance to have another pass at the dialogue since I’d be lettering it, then on to the next page. Now this works a treat if you’re just plowing through the book from start to finish, but I’d be writing a few pages at the start, a few further on, here’s something that happens in the middle of the book, here’s the last page just so Neil has something to work on this week, oh I should probably insert a page inbetween these two pages… and then I had to fill in the blanks to connect these originally disparate parts together in a manner that looked like I absolutely had not done just that.
There’s a page in the book I left until last and spent literally two weeks trying to figure how it connected the page that preceded it to the page that followed, and because I’d finished every other page I was completely written into a corner, short of writing “THIS HAPPENS JUST BECAUSE IT HAS TO” in 120pt letters. I mean, I got there in the end, because here we are. It’s a kind of madness, but it’s the only way I managed to get the book done, so… whatever works, right? I’m reminded of Matt Fraction’s numbered-butterfly-honey-stick analogy. It’s pretty astute.
One thing I’ve read repeatedly while browsing other people’s reviews of your book is everyone claiming to know your influences here, so I figured it might be interesting for you to set the record straight on that: what are your influences when writing this book?
CB: Well, I mean the elephant in the room here is Adventure Time, which a lot of reviews have been quick to compare us to. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, in fact it’s an incredibly flattering comparison – especially if people mean the comic book, which is beyond brilliant. And – full disclosure – when I was selling the book at Thought Bubble, any Adventure Time cosplayer passing by had to contend with me screaming “THIS BOOK IS RIGHT UP YOUR STREET!” at them, so it’s definitely got its advantages.
Is it an influence though? I’m not so sure. We’ve both seen the cartoon, but I wonder if people just pick up on Neil’s deceptively simple style – which he was honing long before Finn and Jake came along – and the exuberance and humour that we strove hard to work into it and just make the quickest comparison available to them. Ultimately the comparison will probably only help us, but we’re not Adventure Time, nor are we an Adventure Time knock-off – we’ve got a very specific story to tell and we’re going to tell it as only we can.
Continued belowThere were some conscious influences though, at least in terms of the adventurous spirit I wanted to emulate. They are, in no particular order: Luke Pearson’s Hilda books, The Legend of Zelda video games, The Princess Bride (the movie AND the book), Willow (the nightmarish two headed beast at the end of the film being a direct influence on our end-of-level monster in Dungeon Fun Book One), Jeff Smith’s Bone, Zub and Huang’s Skullkickers… to say the least. I recently realised that my protracted, make-it-up-as-we-go-along style of writing is DIRECTLY influenced by Billy The Fish, a comic strip that used to (maybe it still does) run in Viz.
A lot of reviews picked up that some of Dungeon Fun’s humour is (Monty) Pythonesque, which didn’t dawn on me at all until I saw people mentioning it, and then I thought to myself “why yes it probably is” and had to go watch Holy Grail again to make sure I hadn’t subconsciously ripped anything off. Again though, this is a super-flattering comparison.
I find the book does a good job of standing alone, though, in addition to maybe a few unintentional Python nods. To me it just seemed like a very “You and Neil” thing. In the grand scheme of things, do you find these sort of comparisons helpful or limiting in terms of where you go from here with the book?
CB: Never limiting, goodness no. By and large if you put an expectation on me and Neil we’ll be belligerent in our efforts to circumvent it, and this normally leads to more inspired work. But if these Adventure Time comparisons bring us enough of that Adventure Time dollar to keep making the book for our intended run, then we’ll be very happy and grateful indeed.
So what is the plan, then? You’ve released Book One of Dungeon Fun, what’s next on the docket and how far are you looking ahead? Or is the whole thing an exercise in Billy the Fishing?
CB: Unless you’re Simon Donald (writer of Billy the Fish), one can only Billy the Fish so long…
There was kind of a touchstone incident when we were selling the book at Thought Bubble – kids were coming up and buying it. Like, actual kids. Normally with a parent. One dad asked me if he bought it and his kid became obsessed with it, would there be more issues, he could buy with a proper ending? He probably asked because being a fan of comics he’s seen countless small press endeavours come and go, often uncompleted, and didn’t want his wee girl to go through the same frustrations. So I realised that we’d better map out an ending and get a timescale on future issues pretty sharpish, and that’s what we’ve done. WE’RE DOING IT FOR THE KIDS.
All being well, Dungeon Fun 2: Dungeon Funner will be dropping Spring 2014, and we’ll go from there. We have a good idea as to how long it’ll be, but I’ll save that revelation for a later date.
But it’s certainly not so many issues that people should be daunted by jumping onboard with the first issue TODAY! I mean, we’re not giving the book an ill-defined length by calling it “Saga” or anything, you know? Just how long IS a Saga? It sounds like ages. Who’s got time to sit down and start reading a whole Saga in this day and age anyway? Not this guy.
Man, I can’t imagine that’s not particularly daunting, though, especially since this is you and Neil doing all the work without support of a publisher. Seeing as this is your first effort with your own comics imprint (DoGooder Comics), how are you seeing the struggles of small press distribution so far? I know you’ve got some other titles in the works as well, but with Dungeon Fun being the first, what do you see as the goals you have to accomplish or the hurdles you have to overcome? And how does that play into the Dungeon Fun proposed release schedule? Since — and I say this with you and I both being friends for quite some time now — waiting until Spring 2014 is quite a wait, and I imagine it’s worse for the girl in your story there.
Continued belowCB: On the whole so far it’s been a really positive experience – I wouldn’t say we’ve struggled because we went into it knowing what to expect, having watched our peers go through this process, and Neil’s self-published a few comics of his own over the past year. We’ve had a wealth of support from the people kind enough to review the book online – we’re still waiting for that first negative review to come and crush us – we’ve had some amazing comic creators that both Neil and I look up to say ridiculously nice things about the book unprompted, and retailers couldn’t have been better in taking the book on. Local comic shops here in Glasgow are heavy stocked with the book, and I’m really proud to say that we’ve recently put plans in place for OK Comics and Orbital Comics- two of the UK’s finest comic shops – to start selling the book over the border in Leeds and London, respectively.
Hurdle-wise, it’s quite easy to fall into the assumption that because you’ve got a web presence people will have heard of you, but there’s this rumour going around that not everyone that reads comics is constantly on Twitter and/or the internet. So to that end it’s vitally important that we keep pushing the book into stores up and down the country and hopefully overseas – I’ll be sending out speculative emails shortly, so fingers crossed on that. I suppose the most difficult thing is just the necessity to be willing to be promoting the work 24/7, because it really isn’t enough to assume that people will just stumble on to it. But, if you’re passionate enough about it, it’s not such a chore. Making comics isn’t that bad at all.
How does it all play into the release schedule for Dungeon Fun? TBD on that. In an ideal world I’ll have enough cash stowed away to keep Dungeon Fun going without interruption, but there is certainly an element of needing to make money back on any given book Dogooder will be putting out to make the next one. That’s just business. This whole year is pretty much going to be a put your money where your mouth is kind of deal for me, but if it all pays off, then I get to stand back and see talented creators put out their own uncompromised visions without them being burdened by the worries of printing costs that go hand-in-hand with self-publishing.
So as someone who has been in different facets of the industry, from critic to writer and now a publisher, how do you see the current climate of comics? Both from where Dungeon Fun fits in and just in general?
CB: Well, of course I’m going to say Dungeon Fun is for EVERYONE… and it is!
As for the current climate of comics, that’s a bit of a broad question. We’ve got creators we once admired being dicks to their peers and their fans, we’ve got readers throwing their hands up at companies screwing over fan-favourite creators in service of their bottom line, and I think the only thing that’s changed in the past fifty years is just how much of this behind the scenes information readers are privy to, and knowing all that goes on can take the shine off comics if you let it. Now, don’t get me wrong – it’s vitally important that problematic shit gets called out and drummed out of town, but it’s equally important to not let people acting like assholes ruin the stuff that we love. But I can tell you this – anyone who thinks that comics isn’t (at the very least, creatively) in rude health, or moans that there’s nothing there for them any more needs to look further, dig deeper and expand horizons. There are comics for everyone just waiting to be discovered in formats we couldn’t even imagine when you and I first held a comic (except Comixology of course, which was clearly invented by Tom Hanks in Big), and subsequently there is room for INFINITE kinds of comics and that’s how Dungeon Fun fits in – by default, because I Can Comic, and So Can You. This question’s got away from me a bit.
Continued belowSo with you seem poised to conquer the world (thanks in part to your smashing good attitude here for someone new to small press), what’s next for Dogooder? DunFun 2: Dungeon Funner in Spring next year, and what else?
CB: Well, I’m hammering out the last bit of script for DF2:DF just now and it’s coming together great. If you’ll permit me to use some some romantic-comedy movie terminology, if the first issue is the “meet-cute” of Fun and Games, two souls finding each other at their lowest ebb, at the bottom of the heap; then the next issue is the “getting to know you” montage, circling each other, testing boundaries, fighting giant lava monsters, that kind of thing. I must stress however that Dungeon Fun is emphatically NOT a romantic comedy. It’s a bum-kicking absurdist fantasy comedy with swords and stuff. Although if you’re asking me “would You’ve Got Mail have been improved if Meg Ryan had a sword?” then my answer is yes. Yes, absolutely.
In my capacity of publisher-man, Dogooder’s got a few books on the slate – first up is the as-yet-untitled one that we tease on the very back page of Dungeon Fun wherein cult artist Iain Laurie, fresh off the back of the success of my favourite rural horror mystery comic And Then Emily Was Gone, gets to cut loose his black inks and blacker heart in a story of his own telling.
That’ll be followed by REEL LOVE, a gorgeous cine-fantasy coming-of-age tale told through the prism of one young boy’s relationship with cinema, and that’s being written and drawn by the author of my favourite comic of 2013 – Raygun Roads’ Owen Michael Johnson, whose personal art style is endearing and so far removed from what you might expect having read Raygun. Both books are shaping up great, and are hopefully different from what people might have expected the publisher of Dungeon Fun to follow up with. And that’s how we’ll continue, I’ll keep looking for comics that interest me from people that might not otherwise be able to put them out and we’ll hopefully build a stable of distinct, fascinating comics.
Beyond that, I’ll be lettering everything that comes my way. I’m not above hawking my services in an interview!
So why comics?
CB: Because:
…and MONEY.
“Dungeon Fun” can be purchased physically from Dogooder Comics or digitally from Sellfy.
