Adam P. Knave Gets Real About Comic Careers [Interview]

Comics are a hard industry to break into, much less make a career with. There’s lots of competition and even if a creator has talent and ideas, that career may still remain elusive. This was the sort of thing that Adam P. Knave was talking about when he took to Twitter one day. It’s a seemingly harsh reality, but definitely something worth exploring. So explore we did.

Read on as we chat with Knave about being a comic professional or not, quitting the day job, breaking in, and a whole lot more.

I guess to give an idea of your experiences, how long have you been “seriously” writing with the intent to make money from it? And how long have you been doing it professionally?

Adam P. Knave: Well, wait, how do YOU define “professionally”? Because you could “make money at” or “make a living at” or “get published regardless of money, by someone other than yourself”or “get published at all” … “professionally has a ton of meanings. Keep in mind, too, that say if people pick C there then TMNT wasn’t professional work. Neither, technically was the Image founders work when they started Image. Which is why I need to ask what your working definition is first – because right now I don’t know if I AM a professional by your standards.

For the purposes of this interview, let’s say “professional” is making a decent chunk of your living from writing. While I certainly write about comics online, I don’t consider myself a professional because I don’t make much money at all from it.

APK: Well then, to be blunt here – I am not a professional writer. So. Hi. I suppose the second part of your questions is answered with “I haven’t been.” I have a day job. Yearly I still spend way more paying artists advances for creator owned work than I do making it writing and editing freelance. I don’t bring in much money, at this stage. So, for your definition – nope not a pro. Does this mean we should stop the interview here?

Ha! Not at all. I think that actually makes it better, if you understand what I mean.

APK: I do but I am not going to stop laughing that this interview started with me being declared not a professional for SOME TIME. Regardless, looping back:

The first part of your question – writing with the intent at doing so for money, or professionally, most of my life with an eight-odd year break. My dad was a writer, my mother a writer and editor. So telling stories was what I knew. I wrote my first story when I was 6, that survived at least, and submitted to my first prose anthology when I was 12 (resounding rejection but of course it was and I learned how to take a rejection from it). Around 18 I decided I would “never make it,” not having sold a story so I quit.

It is important here to note that I only tried twice. I was young! This is my excuse for being that dumb.

Anyway, a bunch of years later I started writing again, because I can’t really not write, not really (except I totally did Not Write for eight-odd years so who knows) and that same year I sold my first short story. After that I sold some more, sold a novel, and all that fun stuff. Small Press work, because I liked the people and the money sucked, when there was any, and the sales sucked but you had more control and I made that choice willingly.

Anyway. Eventually I ended up as the assistant editor for “Popgun” Vol 3 and wrote some comic stuff with D.J. Kirkbride and here I am.

Now I know that you, like a decent amount of comic writers, also write prose. How do you find these two are different, especially when breaking in and making a career?

APK: One has pictures? No. Uhm. Neither is any fun to break into, of course. In both cases you’re going to face about the same amount of crap and impossible odds. Also, of course, you’ll find that you did it and don’t know how you did because it just kind of happens. Or it doesn’t. And that’s one of the maddening things. You’ll look at a comic or a book that “made” a guy and from the outside there’s this feeling of “Well then they did THIS and well…” but from the inside it is generally “Well, I did this thing. Which was the same as the last ten things, for me. So why this one? What changed? Oh lord, nothing changed and any minute now everyone will notice and kick me back out!”

Prose and comics are vastly different from technical aspects but in this particular angle – they’re basically the same – these days. It used to be though that because self-publishing was totally frowned on in prose, and you needed an agent that they were different in other key ways. But now – eh, they’re a lot closer along this spectrum.

The whole premise for this interview is a few tweets you made about the reality that not everyone can make a career out of comics, be it because of talent, opportunity, or just plain bad luck. Somewhat related to that is that I think that comics is a rare medium in that a sizable part of the consumers are also trying to be the creators. How do you think that plays into the struggle to make a career out of it when there are already so many talented creators already working in comics?

APK: I would lump most fiction into it, though. Prose and all. I do think it can change things when you, sticking to comics though, when you read a comic and like it and want to make them and feel like “And so does everyone else reading this. Crap.” It’s a mental cost. But there are, in any creative field, far more people who want to do it than end up doing it. In 2011 (and the number gets higher every year) roughly 50 spec scripts are sold and 250,000 written and registered. So… that’s worse odds than comics. Better money – worse odds.

This may sound wrong, or like I’m spitting some peace loving bullshit but it is 100% true – your competition is not those other people. It is you. There will always be more butts than seats, sure. But with webcomics, digital comics, and self-pub as well as Image, and Dark Horse and Oni (plus so many more) – what does it matter if that guy over there makes good comics? There’s room for it. And room for you. Your competition is yourself.

And to go along with that previous question, do established writers really want to mentor up and coming writers when that could potentially just create more competition for them?

APK: Oh god yes. I also work as an editor, remember, and I take on mostly new creators. That’s by choice (and not a rule, just… a thing) because of the idea of helping more people get into the field. New voices means new stories and perspectives. That’s exciting. Yes, there are only so many high paying gigs – but there are also more of them than there were and more creator owned stuff is showing capable of sustaining money – so from a strictly mercenary view I am still not competition for these people!

Stop trying to make us all compete. Non servium! We don’t want to. We want to welcome new folk and push the mediums we work in to bigger heights and new voices.

People can only afford so many comics a month: The answer still isn’t “Hey let’s eat each other alive!” it’s “Let’s also keep working to expand the number of people buying comics!”

There are only so many jobs that pay: The answer isn’t “Hey let’s eat each other alive!” it’s “Let’s also keep working to expand the number of people buying comics!”

That will always be the answer, and it is not just mine, trust me.

That’s actually rather surprising, at least to me, about the “professional” question. But I think it’s fairly common. You see guys writing two or three comics, comics that sell decently well and are good quality, but they also have 40 hour/week day jobs because those comics don’t sell that well. Do you think that’s almost becoming the new norm?

APK: Now professional is in quotes. You’re killing me here.

Uhm. Yeah let’s hit back to that a second. It is the new normal, or is becoming it, because well – it is in every art form. People want, and as a consumer I am right there too, cheap things. 99 cents for a song! I hear books are “too expensive” as 5 bucks. Comics, digitally, should be 99 cents, like a song, a lot of people maintain. Then you have subscription services like Spotify. From a consumer standpoint I get it. I do. From a creator standpoint – how would you like us to make money producing our art for you?

It isn’t sustainable … well no it is sustainable but mostly in a form no one will enjoy. Because it will throw out a lot of great new voices that simply can’t manage to work two jobs when one basically doesn’t pay, and remain healthy and sane. I work a day job and then turn around and put in four to eight more hours in a day writing and editing. Because I have to if I want to have a shot. What I won’t do is lie and say that’s all the fun ever or easy. Is it worth it for me? For me, yes. Will it be so in another decade? I don’t know. I’m almost 40 now and spent my 30s working like this. It can be destructive to your life. I am not, note, blaming consumers for that, but it is my reality. I could choose to write for the rest of my life and never get away from the day job because the income … page rates for pro-gigs haven’t gone up much since the 70s. Cost of living kind of has, you know?

Your average comic buyer doesn’t know that and they shouldn’t have to. They just want their comics. I respect that. You shouldn’t have to invest in this sort of information to read and enjoy some “Batman”. But it is our reality and where it stops being sustainable is where it leaves you with people who don’t have the time and space to develop because the money is simply often shit. And it is shit you take because it is better than zero. Though you also take zero because creator owned is awesome and not many companies pay for that without taking your rights (Understandable! They risk money printing books!) so you do it for back-end and hope you can maybe break even, or have a hit and a lot of times neither will happen. So you try again, but you see the loop there, and the problem with it.

That loop you talk about is also tied to the myth of breaking in, I think. Maybe less than years past, but I think a lot of creators still think that just one awesome script or pitch packet can get them the comics gig of their dreams. Which, while I think is possible, I don’t think is likely, as it’s becoming the norm now, like you said, to work for years on projects with little recognition or profit. “Breaking in” is more like “breaking down a wall” at this point, which you see with guys like Ed Brisson who was making comics for years and years before he finally “broke in”.

APK: “Overnight sensation” is code for “has been working for ten years at least in the industry.” What a lot of people don’t take into account is what I was saying on Twitter that prompted this whole interview: Not everyone succeeds. No matter how good you are – sometimes you still fail. People don’t find your book. It’s the wrong time for it. There are all sorts of reasons. And that can happen, and pile on, for an entire career.

You have to go in being willing to lose the game. You have to be willing to fail. And if you do, but you tried your best and you learned and grew and honestly damn well tried – not this “I wrote a thing once and it didn’t magically work the universe hates me” stuff that, say, I did when I was 18 – you “failed” in your goal to break in possibly but you did not fail yourself. Because knowing when to walk away for your own health, for sanity, for peace of mind and happiness is crucial.

Creating anything is a total mindfuck. You sit alone and build this art and send it out into the world – be it pitches or the internet or whatever – and get back all this reaction and no one teaches you how to deal with that. No one teaches you how to manage your time, or take care of yourself while writing long stretches.

Sure, laugh. But in the past, on a deadline, I have written myself to the point of collapse. No choice, had a deadline that shifted, needed the gig, liked the gig, had the story so I did it. But at the end of that I was physically wrecked, hadn’t eaten or slept in too long and you have to learn to take care of yourself in there as well. Because it is far too easy to dismiss. “Oh that’s a great problem to have” sure it is! It is great when that is your big worry for the moment. But it is also a problem. And it needs a solution.

Dismissing it out of hand helps no one, and can actively hurt yourself. So people think “If I kill myself to do this first thing then everyone will love me and it will sell because I know how good it is and then I’ll make money and the next thing will be easier.” Which, well, that’s wrong on so many levels. Shit, if it does do magically well the next one will be way harder, due to expectations. So good luck ever slowing down.

I know, I got off point. Forgive me.

You’ve already mentioned digital comics and webcomics as where the medium is expanding. Obviously, you have experience with digital comics, what with “Action Cats”, “Amelia Cole”, and “Artful Daggers” all from Monkeybrain. While digital is great because there’s no print costs, an “infinite shelf life”, and all sorts of other things, in reality does it do quite as well as print comics? I’m assuming digital just doesn’t do as well, but that could just as well be the comic market itself with its “collector” mentality and the reluctance of many to go digital, just as much as it’s the medium itself.

APK: Digital is awesome for a lot of reasons! But the reality here is that digital can also not sell. And when it doesn’t… digital is not as large as the print market for comics. It just isn’t. At times it is a different market. And of course with an indie book you have all the same “How do I get people to know about me” problems.

So people who don’t read comics but hear how great “Ms. Marvel” is (and it is) get told by a friend to go to comiXology and buy it. Fine. They do. This is, in fact, wonderful. But how do I reach those non-comic people? I dunno. That’s not “woe is me this is hard” that is just honestly – I do not know! We try stuff. But there isn’t a manual.

And reaching out to the weekly comic shop folk – a lot of them do not buy digital, and a lot of the comic sites don’t cover it. They don’t review indie books. Only so many hours and so many reviewers, I guess, but they don’t, or at least not often. So those folks don’t know about you either. Without browsing, in a bookstore or comic store you see the shelves and you can discover new stuff far easier. This is the problem of Amazon, of comiXology (which I guess is also Amazon now, huh?), and Netflix. If you don’t know it then how do you find it? There are those recommendation scripts but those only go so far.

It’s a new problem, still, and no one has a real, true, provable answer yet. Whoever finds it will be stupidly rich though, I can tell you that.

Like you said, the whole premise of this was that you made the point that not everyone can succeed. I think when you talk with a lot of creators who’ve “made it big”, while they all work hard – and I think most every comic creator does – they also admit to a bit of luck, and the right person owed them a favor or the right person saw their blog with finished pages. Even with all the hard work, it’s sometimes up to chance. Is that how it feels sometimes?

APK: First off: Everyone in comics works their asses off. None of this “most every creator does” stuff, no need to hedge bets there, man.

Luck plays a big stupid factor in this. If, say, an editor sees a comic you wrote and likes it they may offer you work. Now you can send your work to editors you want to work with and help that along, but there is still that X factor. Just as an example. Luck isn’t the main thing though because you’re not going to stop after one project.

When opportunity comes along did you pounce or not notice it? That’s not luck – that’s being engrossed and observant in your own career.

Favors I have to address. No one gives you a job because they’re your friend. That simply DOES NOT HAPPEN. I need to be extra special clear on that. You get a gig because you can do the work. Your work gets you work. Your skill gets you work. Who you know may present opportunity, that’s called networking, but landing the actual job is down to your ability to get the job done, and your ability to not be a total pain in the ass to work with. Remember if someone is paying you for a job they are risking money on you. They are risking their bosses saying “Uhm, why did you throw money away on this?”

Plus regardless of money they are risking their rep on giving you that gig. Your reputation is the biggest thing you have in any industry. No one will risk that to give a friend who can’t do the work a job. Life doesn’t work that way. If I like you, but know you can’t really deliver, and tell someone “Oh, hire this dude,” then you screw it up because you can’t deliver that reflects on me and can hurt my own career going forward. Any job, artistic or not, this is truth.

Networking and skill. That’s what does it.

But there’s still chance involved, of course there is. There’s a company I want to work with. I won’t name them, but there is. And I know that if I knew the guy who could hire me there I could prove myself and do great work for them and have a lot of fun. But I don’t know that guy. I haven’t run into him yet. So there’s some chance. But I also have friends who know him. Will they get me work with that company? Not at all!

But – if I am ever at a convention with this guy will my friends introduce me? Not as “Here’s someone who should work for you” but just as a fellow human being? Sure they will. That’s networking. They will take me past a bit of the chance involved, make it easier for me to say hi. Everything else involved is up to me. But so far that chance hasn’t been on the table.

I sold a short horror story once because I was sitting in a hotel lobby at a convention, talking with a friend. An editor walked by and my friend said “Oh hey, do you know Adam?” So me and this guy chatted and I took my shot and had some ideas in my back pocket and by the end of our hanging out I had sold a story. Chance. Right there. If that editor hadn’t walked by – etc etc.

But the important thing here isn’t that chance plays a part – it’s that taking advantage of those chances when they happen is ALL ON YOU. Sitting back and waiting for jobs to fall in your lap doesn’t work. You have to do the legwork, find the opportunity and pounce – smartly.

You talk about not knowing how to reach those non-comic people, the ones that may not already be buying comics on a regular basis. In your opinion, is this probably the biggest problem for an indie book, or is it something else?

APK: I think it is the single biggest issue with the comics industry today. Indie or not. How do we bring in new readers? We all know they’re out there. Millions of people saw Guardians of the Galaxy. Many of them would like comics – not only superhero genre stuff but all the richness the medium offers. But how do we make sure they know – oh hey, over here? No one has a great answer yet. If they did comics would be selling far more than they are. But a lot of folks are thinking about it and trying things to different degrees. Kelly Sue DeConnick is probably the smartest person in the room for this. She uses social media smartly and enables her fans to create this social structure of their own and it grows and involves outreach and is beautiful to see.

Now, this was something that a couple of people wanted me to ask you, but I’m not sure how well you’ll be able to answer it because of reasons above, but at what point might you know that freelancing is going well and you can quit the day job?

APK: Oh I can answer it. You just might not like it: That answer is, by necessity, different for everyone.

For me I need to make the sort of money I can live on, and do it for a few years so I can stockpile savings just in case there are a few bad years in there. Once I have that huge nest egg under me I can break free. That’s MY plan. I have friends who decided they simply couldn’t take the day job anymore, walked away and scrambled hard to make ends meet for years doing small freelance strangeness and slowly got the work out there and networked and live comfortably now.

Also understand that for 95% of freelancers “comfortably” means that by October you can see where the next years money should come from. Freelancing is not for the faint at heart.

Come up with your plan – how little are you comfortable living on, how much security do you need for peace of mind – and run realistic numbers. Then, when you meet your goals – make the leap. But those goals will be different for every person in every circumstance. None of this is cut and dry and simple, I wish it were.

We’ve already established that you have a day job and make comics and prose in the time after work. I’m sure even with the desire to make progress each and every day, there have to be days where writing just doesn’t get done. Maybe it’s because you’re planning and thinking or maybe it’s because things just conspire against you that day. The whole “write every day” motto can’t be true EVERY day, right?

APK: You can’t separate out “planning and thinking” from “writing” without reducing writing to “Typing stuff.” Just doesn’t work, if you see what I mean. So yeah, every day I write. Some days that means typing new words into documents. Some days it means plotting, or research, or just thinking stories through. But every single day I have time carved out (and other times that aren’t carved out that just happen) where I work on stories.

So I sit down and type new words in documents every day? No. Five or six out of seven? Pretty much. This is a career. It’s a job. I treat it like a job. You go to work, you get stuff done. Except you never get to clock out. Because even when you’re trying to sleep new things occur to you. When you’re working your other jobs stuff happens and you need to jot a note. So you do as much as you can, and some days that work just isn’t typing.

Maybe on the flip side of knowing when to go full-time freelance, at what point might one know it’s time to hang it up? This is, of course, a very subjective thing and will differ from person to person.

APK: Yeah it is very subjective. People have their own lines for that sort of thing and it is important to listen to them. I don’t intend to ever stop again, regardless of needing a day job but as I get older (39 this year) I am slowing down in my ability to work eight hours a day at a day job and then write for two hours, have an hour for dinner and then work another few hours until I need to crash out, normally far too late. So if it ever hits the point where it seriously impacts my health – I will have to revisit things.

I have friends who want to create stuff but the rejection messes with their heads. The pushing against seemingly unmovable walls for years on end just does them in, mentally. And that’s fine! Know your personal line. When you need to, for your own health, physical and mental, and safety – you walk away. You have to take care of yourself and not beat yourself up over it.

You’re better off being happy and healthy, just about every single time.

And this is where I ask you what else you may want to mention? What dirty aspects of comics do you want to expose, as I’m sure I haven’t covered it all?

APK: People in artistic fields tend to cover up how hard it can be. How draining and how sucky. Mostly because come on it is the best job there is! I get paid to make up fun stories!

It’s still work. And there is no looking for sympathy here, don’t misunderstand me, but just a general blanket statement: This is hard. We work hard. Harder than you know. I’ve pulled all nighters to get issues through production, and I know I’m far from alone.

Again – Well worth it.

Just remember when you want to slag off a comic or novel because you didn’t like it don’t start claiming “Oh so-and-so phoned it in” and other dismissive stuff. We’re all hard at work. Sometimes a bad story happens despite the best of intentions. Sometimes a story is good, just not for you. But it is pretty much never ever because we were being lazy. I don’t know a single person working in comics who does not work their asses off, at every turn.

Also, just as a fair warning this whole interview was done in a live Google Doc, and is first draft for me. I wanted to go back and edit and make myself sound smarter, and more on point, but I wanted that raw uncut thing going on. So when I sound like a total jerk, I guess I’m letting you know – I might just be a total jerk, I guess? Huh. That’s not great. Damn.