Dan Abnett has carved out a niche for himself at DC over the past few years, handling both the Aquaman and Titans corners of the DCU. With ‘The Lazarus Contract’ crossover, Abnett finds himself as part of a three-headed beast of writers connecting “Titans,” “Teen Titans,” and “Deathstroke” to a story that is all about legacy and time, two prominent features of Abnett’s DC work thus far.
We had the pleasure of talking with Abnett about all things “Titans,” his history with the characters, and whether or not Wally West’s quest for truth will be advanced at all in ‘The Lazarus Contract.’ Stay tune for interviews with the other two writers involved over the next few weeks.
This interview has been edited for clarity
It appears that ‘The Lazarus Contract’ is a spiritual sequel to the classic “New Teen Titans” story ‘The Judas Contract.’ What’s your relationship with that story?
Dan Abnett: As you say, it’s absolutely a classic story. Your description of [‘The Lazarus Contract’] being a spiritual follow up is spot on. Growing up living in the UK and with limited access to American comics, I actually am ashamed to say this in a middle of a DC interview but I was a Marvel reader because that’s what I could get my hands on! I didn’t sadly read ‘the Judas Contract’ when it was originally published. It is something I came to later, and appreciated a great deal. I think it’s a terrific piece of storytelling and obviously a very crucial benchmark in the development of the DC universe. Yes, sadly I was not there at the time but I have come to both admire and love it. It was great to be part of something that built on that basis.
Is there something about the book that particularly stands out to you all these years later?
DA: I think it was ahead of it’s time. I think there were a few books back then that were really doing things with team dynamics and “New Teen Titans” was certainly one of them. What Marv [Wolfman] and George [Perez] were doing was extremely clever because it was without descending at the realms of soap opera, it was about the friendships and relationships in those characters and ‘The Judas Contract’ really put that under pressure and tested it and then changed it. I think that was a template for a lot of great comics that have followed on.
It must be interesting because you’re dealing with a cast in “Titans” that is very similar to the cast of the “New Teen Titans” at the time of “The Judas Contract,” but obviously the iterations of the characters are different, and you can sort of hint and nudge at things but you can’t really reference what happened before. Do you think that for new readers it would be beneficial for them for a greater enjoyment of ‘The Lazarus Contract’ to go back and read ‘The Judas Contract,’ or do you feel this is a good jumping on place for new readers?
DA: I think it’s a great jumping on place. The whole idea is … What I think what you’ve done is sort of described the process the ‘Rebirth’ books are doing hopefully very effectively which is to acknowledge the fact that ‘Rebirth’ is about the way there is a sort of overlap of old continuity and new, and that some things are true and some things are disconnected. I think we’ve done a pretty damn good job of making those connections work in a logical way. I think it’s a very good template for how the ‘Rebirth’ books work as far as basing themselves on the past but also being fresh at the same time.
This is an interesting kind of crossover for DC. There have been a lot of these little four week crossovers where everything is being done in a really short time frame and it sets up a whole new status quo on the other side of it. Will “Titans” be significantly different after ‘The Lazarus Contract?’
DA: I think it’s probably fair to say that it will. There are some significant things to happen in ‘The Lazarus Contract’ that will have repercussions for the “Titans” book. I think the changes in the dynamic in “Titans” will be less obvious on the surface than they are, for instance, in “Deathstroke,” but nevertheless it is a fairly fundamental moment in the life of these characters, and it will have repercussions particularly for some of them through many issues to come.
Continued belowWally West has been a very interesting character under your pen because he’s both reconnecting to his old life and reconnecting with readers after a long time away. He’s also trying to solve this grand mystery that is going on all throughout the DC universe. Will ‘The Lazarus Contract’ give Wally any answers in the mystery he’s seeking?
DA: He’s kind of the poster boy, isn’t he, for ‘Rebirth?’ He’s the character right there at the epicenter, showing how past and future are different but connected. I’m actually certain it will be something I’ll be playing with. As far as ‘The Lazarus Contract,’ I think the focus of the story is very, very much on Deathstroke and it’s very, very much on this story. But, it speaks to a much bigger problem that Wally’s got on his mind. Without spoiling anything, there’s not going to be a big answer to those grand questions there but if nothing else, it’s going to generate more questions and give Wally a greater insight into the way that time might be manipulated. I think that’s again one of the takeaways that I’ll carry forward into the next few issues. This is really a story about Deathstroke but it has implications and it has consequences that will play into that bigger story line that we have been playing with since ‘Rebirth’ began, really.
I had the chance to read your issue of “Titans” for the crossover before speaking with you, and I find the concept very pragmatic. If Wally helps Slade bring back Grant, he’ll give up being Deathstroke. It’s a very interesting approach for a “villain” to take. Is it easier or harder to write a villain when you can kind of understand his motivations?
DA: In some respects it’s a lot harder because if you understand his motivations, there’s a danger of really sympathizing with him, in which case you’ve got to try to balance that drama out. You almost are questioning why the heroes are trying to stop him if what he’s trying to do makes perfect sense. Deathstroke is such a singular villain, and yet he doesn’t operate like other classic villains. He’s got a different approach to things and a different way of looking at things.
Obviously, because we had this crossover event, we worked on all the books together, I got to meet and talk to and work with the other writers. Christoper Priest is an amazing guy whose work I’ve admired for a long time, and he has an incredibly keen take on how Deathstroke works. At any point whether there was a doubt how to handle things, I would talk to him and we would sort of make it work because he had a very, very clear view of the way things would work. I think ultimately it could have been much harder to do, but it was a real pleasure to do because we got in step with each other and understood how he operated. I think this is in terms of villains pulling shocks and surprises, the idea that he’s almost not operating as a villain, he’s coming to them almost more openly than he’s ever done before and say I’ve got a problem that I wish to solve and you can help me do it makes it, I think that’s why it’s a very compelling story.
I agree. I think that the first issue does a really nice job of setting up the odd morality in what Slade is trying to do.
I want to talk about your “Titans” run as a whole so far. You started writing these characters in “Titans Hunt” before ‘Rebirth,’ before anyone had any idea what ‘Rebirth’ was going to mean. You have shepherded the characters now into this new status quo that’s a very good embodiment of what ‘Rebirth’ is supposed to be. It feels new but it feels familiar. We’ve seen characters we’ve loved but they’re not quite the same but they’re very true to who they are at their core. When you started writing “Titans Hunt,” what was it about these characters that initially spoke to you? What makes these characters important and interesting?
Continued below
DA: I think they are genuinely great characters. I find them very, very interesting indeed. It was a real surprise to be asked to handle them. There was this excitement, this getting my head around who they were and how they operated together. Although, when I started on “Titans Hunt,” I didn’t know about ‘Rebirth’ either. It became pretty rapidly clear that in some respects, I was sort of a dry run. “Titans Hunt” was a dry run for what ‘Rebirth’ would do because the explicit break from DC was to take old continuity and make sense of it in the ‘New 52’ continuity. That is to say to explain why there was this dislocation between what we knew about these characters before and what had happened since. And almost to explain the secret history and connect those dots which is something I did with relish.
It was while I was working on this that I was then secretly told that ‘Rebirth’ was coming and this was going to happen on a wider scale. I think there are really interesting things about the Titans. First of all, they are the classic legacy DC characters. DC has been around for so long now that they have spawned multiple generations of those classic heroes. This is the first generation of legacy characters; that makes them primarily important because they’ve gone from being kids who were sidekicks in their original inception to being grown ups in their own right now. They are as key as the classic big DC characters. I think that makes them really interesting. They are embodiments of the way DC continuity has gone on over the years and what makes it so enjoyable to be part of it, to see these characters grow and change and develop and mature.
The other interesting thing to me about the Titans is that they are a team based on friendship more than anything else. Other teams are friends but they are drawn together for other reasons, whereas these guys are drawn together because they are friends and because they have that sort of shared point of origin; that is to say they are the pupils of other heroes. Playing with that is really interesting. One of the things I’ve been doing recently is looking at the idea of them being friends is their greatest strength, something I’ve talked about and some of the issues in [“Titans Annual” #1].
Friendship is their greatest strength. But also, their friendship is at one point their vulnerability. It’s great to play with. I like the fact that there is that sort of camaraderie of friendship that flows through everything that happens. That obviously is directly part of the created legacy of Marv and George back in ‘The Judas Contract.’ I guess my hopes is that readers want to hang out with these people because it sounds like it’s a fun place to be, even when terrible things are happening. It sounds like a fun place to be.
Even when Deathstroke crashes the party.
DA: Absolutely.
It’s interesting. I’m a lifelong DC reader. I really do believe that these characters are the most important in the entire DC universe. I think that the idea of legacy is something that is so important and intrinsic to DC, and one of the interesting things about this crossover is that we get to see the different generations of legacy characters interact, and we haven’t seen that in a long time. What’s it been like for you to also be a part of the Teen Titans writing process for this and, for that matter, how has it been writing Deathstroke, the one character who bridges both these groups?
DA: First of all, let me tell you I agree completely. I think they are incredibly important. Big comic companies that have been running for a long time generate second and third generation versions of their classic heroes or new versions of their heroes and some last and have longevity; some fade away and eventually are replaced by their illustrious predecessor. I think the Titan characters are such an interesting group because they have sustained and have developed identities of their own that they are recognized and loved by fans worldwide because of who they are, not because they are Kid Flash or Robin or whatever. They are characters in their own right. That does make them really interesting to write about and really fascinating to explore and to savor that achievement that DC has made of creating these lasting legacy characters.
Continued belowObviously since the days of the Wolfman/Perez Teen Titans themselves have now become the Titans and the Teen Titans in various situations over the years and in different ways. Some have grown up more than others and some have stayed as teens. I think we collectively we all felt it would be a really good idea to address the elephants in the room that there was a team called the Titans and a team called the Teen Titans. Technically speaking, they are interchangeable. As much as technically they fill the same position in the DC Universe that the original incarnation did. In fact, there’s running gags that I put in “Titans” is that people keep mistaking them for the Teen Titans although they aren’t teenagers. This whole idea that they need to carve an identity for themselves and be known as that.
We really wanted to show that reading “Titans” and reading “Teen Titans” is not an either or option. These are completely different books, and you can read them both. It’s not duplications of story lines and team dynamics nor is it even one a junior version of another. They are completely different and they operate in very different ways. This was a great way of demonstrating that by putting them face to face. The best way to put them face to face is to put into the middle of that the villain who is always divisively driven the lives of the Teen Titans one way or another. And to show this sort of echoes the part coming back to hold them, to both hold the older members, the Titans and to shock the younger members.
You get great moments like for Wally for instance, or Wally Senior as we refer to him, knowing exactly who Deathstroke is and how dangerous he is but Wally Junior from the Teen Titans, having no idea or being thought by that. I think those reactions are great. Each team is defined by the other. I think that’s a really useful thing the crossover does. Of course, I think fans really want to see them. They really wanted to say, hang on, we’ve got the Titans and Teen Titans that are sort of the same thing but they’re not. When is someone going to address this? This seemed to us the best way of addressing it.
I want to ask briefly about your two co writing compatriots on this. You briefly mentioned Christoper Priest before who I think is writing the best Deathstroke that’s ever been written. He’s just truly doing an incredible job.
DA: Absolutely.
Also, Ben Percy who is doing a really interesting job of bringing together this new generation of Teen Titans. What’s the process like for working on a crossover like this? Did somebody write an outline and then people get assignments, or is it all done together? Walk us through the process.
DA: The processes like this on crossovers can be very, very different depending on who you’re working with and the scale of it, etc, etc. In this particular instance, all three of us had started to talk before the crossover happened, because we were touching on many of the same materials and Ben wanted get in touch to run past something with me to make sure it wasn’t interfering with either “Titans” or “Aquaman” continuity for instance. Priest would do the same. When this came up, we started having long brainstorming sessions. I think Priest was the driving force as much as he wanted to do something with Deathstroke and he wanted to acknowledge the legacy of ‘The Judas Contract,’ but we also jumped in and had a long, long brainstorming conversation and found we actually also delightfully all got along really really well.
It sounds sort of soppy really, but it was a real pleasure to do it. I admire Priest enormously – I think his work is great. He’s the writer I’ve loved for a long time, from things like “Black Panther.” I think he’s a fantastic writer. I think he’s done a great job with “Deathstroke.” It was great fun to encamp him, to exchange emails, and eventually to meet with him face to face and talk about ideas. Ben is terrifically talented. We get along very well as well. I think we almost all of us – in particular Priest and I, who were veterans at doing this sort of thing – before were wary to begin with because we always knew there were going to be some pitfalls where somebody didn’t want to play ball or somebody wanted to guard their toys overzealously. All three of us ended up being really surprised that no one did.
I hope you won’t mind me mentioning this, but I got a lovely email from Priest just the other day, saying “Thanks ever so much – I can’t believe you let me screw around with the “Titans” characters so much, because usually somebody’s proprietorial with their stuff and it was a real pleasure doing it.” Similarly, I feel I screwed around with Deathstroke and the Teen Titans, but none of us hated it. What we could see by not being overly protective of our own things, we ended up getting a much better story, because these are stories that were reflective of what these characters were actually liking to do rather than say you wouldn’t do that because that’s not what happens in my book.
We get to do things that I think readers will find absolutely true to character but possibly slightly surprising because those sorts of genuinely significant things don’t usually happen in crossovers when people are policing their own characters a little bit too tightly. At the end of it, I think we all sat down and went “of course it works like that,” because we all wanted it to be like that. At the same time, were delighted because none of us were being that guy, “you can’t do that with my character!” Writing crossovers and collaborating with others should always be like that. Sadly it isn’t always like that, but in this particular incident it really was. We shouldn’t have been surprised but we were in a really good way.
