Daniel Warren Johnson is one of my very favorite people in comics. He’s also an insanely talented artist, which I’ve written about a time or two here on the site. When I heard that he was going to have a book put out through Skybound, I knew that we were all in for a treat as the book looked to be a stellar sci-fi story with killer art. That “Extremity” is an action-packed, yet incredibly thoughtful, story of revenge, family, and how people deal with loss was no big surprise to me, as Dan is also a damn good writer. If you don’t already, you’ll quickly come to learn that Daniel Warren Johnson can do it all.
During ECCC, I had the chance to sit down with Daniel Warren Johnson as he finished up lunch and chat with him about “Extremity”. Read as we talk about the genesis of “Extremity” in Eva Kor’s story, the monster hunting comic that almost was, challenging the idea of a revenge narrative, Dan’s greatest fear, and more.
Dan, I think “Extremity” is something that’s been floating around in your head for a while. How long have you been working on it and how has the evolution of the book been?
Daniel Warren Johnson: It was something that I wanted to do after “Space-Mullet”. Initially, I knew I wanted to do a project that would show people that I could be taken a bit more seriously, so with that in my mind, I knew what I wanted to do at least tone wise, but I wasn’t sure the subject until later. My wife Rachel told me about the story of Eva Kor, she’d heard about it on NPR and I did more research on it. She was a Jewish woman who was in a concentration camp during WWII. She was an identical twin, so she got the worst of things, just horrific stuff done to her. In the early 2000s, she came out publicly and forgave her Nazi captors.
Oh, wow.
DWJ: It’s insane. As crazy as it was, that’s not what hit me about the story. What hit me was the pushback she got, not just from her Jewish community, but from the global Jewish community. They basically ostracized her. Her religious family basically said, “You can’t do that”. She very publicly told them that she wasn’t doing it for them, she was doing it for herself. It was what she needed to do in her heart, to be healthy. That was the initial spark. I was thinking about doing a revenge story, but then I thought what if it wasn’t just a revenge story? This sounds so pretentious, but then I thought about challenging the American narrative of what a traditional revenge story is. Something bad happens to one person, then the person who was wronged gets a glory kill in the end. We all want it. We all cheer for it. It’s a very consistent through-line. I was wondering what would happen if I pushed back to that a little bit.
At first, I had some terrible ideas. One thing about the story that inspired me was how families or groups of people react when something bad happens. Families go through stuff all the time. Groups of friends, religious communities, whatever. There’s multiple ways of dealing with a situation, but a lot of time there’s competing reactions within the group. So it’s like a response to a response.
What “Extremity” then became was not just Thea, but Thea and her brother Rollo and her father Jerome, who just sees nothing but red. Rollo is the opposite of Jerome, who’s the leader of their clan. Rolo doesn’t want to kill anyone. He’s into books, he likes reading. Thea’s in the middle of it. I hope it’s clear visually that Thea’s haircut is modeled after her dad’s. She’s following in his footsteps and seeshim as a strong leader. In the first issue, we get to see Thea step into the role as her dad’s successor. That’s where it kind of stemmed from. It was many iterations. At first it was going to be a WWII comic about the Spanish Maqui living in the woods, then it turned into a monster hunting comic. Tons of different ideas and sketchbooks upon sketchbooks. I had to step back and create the emotional core of Thea and her drives. Then I built the world to fit her. It’s a very character driven story, which is how I usually operate. You know that.
Continued belowI think the inciting incident for all this is the attack on the Roto clan where they kill Thea’s mother and cut off Thea’s hand, which takes her ability to draw – which is something that she’s not only known for, but defines her. That’s how she defines herself, by her ability to draw. As an artist, I imagine that’s something you think about a lot. What if I couldn’t draw anymore? What is that going to do to me? What is that going to do to my family?
DWJ: That’s the main emotional push of the story. I told another interviewer earlier, that early in the development of “Extremity” I had basically just a family that had been wronged. Like, just a “you killed my mom!” type thing. It’s not necessarily bad, but it’s just been done. It was a story about revenge with cool bikes and monsters.
I really want to see this monster comic you keep talking about now.
DWJ: [laughs] It’s just soulless violence without any substance.
I wasn’t confident in actually developing the structural story, like the background and art, until I’d finally asked myself what my greatest fear was. It’s losing my drawing hand. I was never good at basketball and in Little League I was always picked last. I need my drawing hand.
I have a friend who’s a musician, a music therapist. Her greatest fear is that something happens to her hands because that’s her livelihood and her passion.
DWJ: Right, it’s your passion. It’s what defines you. I play guitar. I’m in a metal band. If I lose my right hand, I’m not playing metal anymore.
The whole story is the question of what I would do. That gave it the emotion and the life. All of a sudden Thea starts talking to me like she’s a real person.
The characters seem to view the loss of Thea’s hand as on the same level as the loss of her mother. It’s just as bad.
DWJ: Exactly. I’m really glad you noticed that because it’s what I was going for. First, I was nervous because I’m taking this story of revenge and challenging the notion of the revenge story. I’m thinking there will be pushback, but I finally had to tell myself to be quiet. It’s not a story about what you or me would do, but it’s about what Thea would do. She’s told me what she’s going to do. Something put her in my head and this is what she’s going to do. She’s just leading the story and she’s searching for that lost identity.
The world of Extremity seems pretty deep from the first issue. There seems to be a lot of different factions that populate the Rising Plains. The Paznina attack the Roto clan to start the story. Who are they and what’s their relation? Why are they doing this?
DWJ: A lot of how the Paznina came about and their ideology comes from their location in this world. It could be Earth in the far future, could be Earth in the past, but I wanted to keep that open. The idea that you have these continents, basically, that are floating in the air and a scarred planet underneath with old sci-fi, futuristic tech that’s been destroyed and the Roto scavenge while the Paznina have access to their own water and source of industry causes them to separate themselves from the rest of the world. It gives them an elitist and almost Manifest Destiny persona. The initial spark that ignites the conflict is that something happens to the queen of the Paznina – her daughter is hurt for some reason. That’s why that starts everything and you find out in issue 2. I tried to create a culture that has distanced itself from the world below and almost views those that live below as lesser. I’m not going to say any sociological shit, but that’s what I was thinking as I created them.
It’s interesting that you talk about their different lifestyles because I think that’s evident with how the soldiers of the different clans look. The Paznina look like knights with armor and swords, whereas the Roto are rough and look like scavengers.
Continued belowDWJ: The Paznina have distanced themselves from the world below and since they have industry, they can mass produce things, but they are essentially starting from scratch so they’re not as advanced. They’re able to mass produce stuff, but it’s a lesser level than the Roto can find. So the Roto will have one awesome gun with four charges, but the Paznina have the all the arrows and swords and muskets and armor. The visual differences goes beyond just a rectangle or a circle over their eye. I’m trying to get a little deeper with it, visually. Even if you can’t see what’s on their face, you should be able to tell the difference.
This is also the first time that you’re dong a monthly book by yourself. How is that experience so far?
DWJ: It’s been great. Skybound has been awesome. I started really early.
I think I remember you mentioning last year at ECCC that you were doing something.
DWJ: Yeah, I started writing it in June or July of 2015. I started drawing it in November of 2015. I’m drawing issue 9 now and just finished writing issue 10, so I’m pretty far ahead. Because there’s so much lead time, it’s really been awesome. I’m doing an issue in about 5 weeks. If I’m trying to do a 22 page comic in four weeks, I can do it for a while, but eventually I start phoning it in. Nobody wants to see me phoning it in. I’m thankful I get to take my time a little more.
You’re working with Mike Spicer on colors, right? How is that because I know “Space-Mullet” is just the blue tones. How is it to have something that’s wholly you, but with someone else bringing it to the next level with color?
DWJ: It’s always jarring, but it’s awesome. It’s usually jarring in a bad way or a good way. With Mike, it’s always good. 50% of the time, he does something completely unique that I didn’t envision but it looks great. Pink clouds in issue 1. I didn’t see that coming, but it worked great and it gives everything a weird, unreal vibe. The other half of the time, he is literally coloring it how I saw it in my head and it’s great. Which is amazing. Also, he’s great to work with. I’ve never met him before, only emailed, so I still haven’t thanked him in person.
I know you said that the first issue sold out. How blown away are you by the reception?
DWJ: Pretty blown away? I also have to give credit to Skybound. They put a preview in the 25 cent issue of “The Walking Dead”. How many issues did that thing sell? At least 700,000? Something like that.
So I’m sure that helped. No matter how that happened, I’m still very thankful, especially for comics shop for taking a chance on a new book. I promise I’m trying my best.
