Today sees the release of “Dark Crisis on Infinite Earths” #7, the final chapter in a nearly two-year long saga that began with “Infinite Frontier” #0. With the ‘Dawn of DC,’ the newest publishing initiative, beginning a roll out with next week’s “Action Comics” #1050, this seemed like a good time to speak to the team behind “Dark Crisis,” Joshua Williamson and Daniel Sampere, about the event, how it changed them as creators, and why a more emotional ‘Crisis’ was the way to go.
And, be warned, spoilers from “Dark Crisis” #7 will be discussed in this interview.
The art in “Dark Crisis” is some of the most emotive and affecting we’ve seen in a big event book in a very long time. Daniel, when you’re doing a story that is this big, that is this bombastic, how do you manage to find those personal character moments inside of all of the chaos and explosions and superheroes punching each other at 30,000 miles an hour?
Daniel Sampere: I think the key is that I love what I do a lot. I love them so much, these characters and DC; I grew up with comic books. When I have the chance to draw something like this, I am happy that you can feel my passion about capturing the feelings of the characters. I feel it myself when I see movies or read comic books; I like to stay calm when I’m into a story. You know, I like the stories that made me feel things: happy or angry or whatever. I like strong feelings and so when I draw, I try to give people those feelings. And I try to understand that even in the multiverse, war and craziness, characters still feel things, you know. And I try to not lose that and focus on that.
So even if the situation is crazy, I try to imagine how I will feel in that situation, because the feelings are the same, you know? When in issue six, Jon [Kent] finally finds his father, it’s a story of fantasy and superheroes and people who can fly, it is really about the feeling of finding your father. It’s human, and I tried to represent that in the best way possible.
Joshua Williamson: We talked about that a lot in the beginning was that we wanted to really tell an emotional story. You know, like there’s a saying in writing: the bigger the world, the smaller the story. Yeah, we have this big “Crisis” thing, and there’s explosions and stuff happening, but it was about these emotions, and also letting people have time to react to these extraordinary circumstances. We don’t normally get to see that. Going back to “Infinite Frontier,” a big part of that story was about people reacting to what was happening; let’s actually see it and deal with it emotionally. And that was here. Daniel and I talked about, like, “oh, there’s a scene with a big fight scene with a bunch of characters in it.” But that wasn’t the thing we spent the most time on. It was always the things we got the most excited about, the big emotional moments that made this event different from other ‘Crisis’ events. We tried to let those characters actually live in those extraordinary circumstances. We’ve seen the Justice League’s point of view on a ‘Crisis.’ I’ve seen it. So I was like, “let’s draw from different points of view.” And then also what those characters react to the circumstances. Daniel did a really, really killer job of showing those emotions.
A lot of ‘Crises’ start in point A, and point B is so far away from it that you can’t see the ending when it starts. But this one, the actual point A and point B aren’t that far apart, but every character has changed so much between the two points. The DC Universe at the end of it is different, with the infinite multiverse reborn, but the world that most of these heroes inhabit is not fundamentally different. But “Dark Crisis” is about how all the characters have changed alongside it. There’s a challenge, I would imagine, in making that story feel as epic and as world changing as if the multiverse went away, or something similar. So what was your process of making this a more emotional ‘Crisis,’ as opposed to a world shattering ‘Crisis?’
Continued belowJW: I love DC events. And I’ve been reading DC Comics my whole life. And so, part of it was just looking at all those events and being like, “I’ve seen that.” So it’s the same story I have with the characters where it’s like, I’ve seen that. So let’s try something a little different, right? We do have the Infinite Earths return and you’ll see in the Big Bang special, the other side of the source wall is the infinite multiverse. So we do have those kinds of things going on, but it wasn’t the priority. Our priority was to tell the story about these characters and tell the story about the emotion.
If I know Nightwing represents legacy and Deathstroke represents the hate and death of legacy. And then Black Adam is somewhere in the middle, conflicted on the idea of it, because he is a person where, the last time he really shared himself [in “52”], they died; those people died. So, he is now be in a situation where he again has to share himself, and he’s rejecting that idea. And from him rejecting the idea of legacy to him coming around where he’ll die for and legacy In the ending, those are the stuff that was important to me.
Those are all the big beats, it’s like, you know, I wanted to have it be where, yeah, there’s big, cosmic explosions. But it’s like, having worked on “Death Metal” and Metal,” and what Greg [Capullo] and Scott [Synder] had built was such as crazy big rock show all the time, I wanted to do something a little more intimate, and little in some places meta and actually say something about DC and say something about these characters and, along with Daniel, be able to honor the past while moving forward. That’s what this was about.
As a fan, DC always works best when all the pieces are working together, right? Like, it sounds silly, but it’s like, you don’t take pieces off the board, you want them all be on the table together, and we get to play with them all. My favorite eras of DC are when all those pieces are on the table. And I think for a while there was a stripping down of that, which is why at the beginning of issue seven, we even had where the darkness strips down Deathstroke and Nightwing and they went back to their original forms. That was like a bit of a meta commentary on how the dark wants you to strip all the legacy away, and strip away all the new cool stuff, and only be its original thing. And I’m like, “no, no, no, you can honor that past while moving forward.” And that’s where the rest of the issue is about.
We’re trying to take all these pieces and keep moving it forward. Like, you know, bring in the legacy characters. My favorite era is when it was when you had an awesome JSA book, a JLA book, a Titans book, and a Teen Titans book.This is when it works best on a meta level. Nightwing says it to Deathstroke, he’s like “You don’t get it you think we’re gonna follow in their footsteps; we’re not following anyone’s footsteps. We’re all walking together.”
And so to answer your question, a lot of whiteboards, a lot of planning, and a lot of thoughts went into how do I do this differently? How do I make it so it’s always weird? You know, it was kind of funny working on this event, because there were times where I would hear from people, “it doesn’t feel like these other Crisis events.” And I’m like, “Well, isn’t that the point?” Because if I made it feel like there’s other Crisis events that I’m repeating myself, like I have to do something different with it.
There was a long time when Dick Grayson was stuck in this weird place where everybody recognized that he’s important, but nobody was writing him as if he was important. And I think one of the nice things about this book is that you guys are really positioning Dick as the center of the DC Universe. Visually and from a writing perspective, aside from a great ass, what are the key elements to making a good Dick Grayson story?
Continued belowDS: On my side, it’s been super easy, because I haven’t had to look very far to know the right answer: just looking at what my friend Bruno Redondo is doing right now [in “Nightwing”]. He just nailed it, he found, I think the best way to represent Nightwing, so I just had to look at his work and talk to him and try to maintain his look and take on the character but just using my my own art style, you know, but I tried to not add anything too new or different. Bruno just does it right.
When I draw Superman, for example, I mix my own thing with my favorite artists of Superman, but there’s so many different versions of Superman, so I choose mine by mixing with a lot of people. But in this case, I just had to look at Bruno’s. It was easy.
JW: Well, I think with him, he always had to have a character that he definitely is still smiling. You know, it sounds really silly, but I think he has an optimistic point of view on things. Right. In issue 7, Bruce and Dick are talking, and Nightwing makes this whole speech about the candle [seen in “Dark Crisis” #1], and Batman is just like, “No, it was never about that. It was always you. You were the light in the dark.”
That’s what he brings to the table. He brings the light heartedness, he brings an optimistic point of view. And you can see a lot of that in what Tom Taylor has been doing [again, in “Nightwing”]. I also approached it from something I think what you’re saying it’s like, we all know he’s important, and I think a lot of people in the DCU also know he’s important. They all kind of look to him; he’s approachable. That might sound silly, but a lot of people still view the Justice League as like gods in some ways, but people see Nightwing as the one you can go and talk to. But Nightwing doesn’t understand that; he is not necessarily 100% comfortable, or at least at the beginning. You have people like Alan Scott, go to him and empower him and then Dick realizing over the course, “Oh, I am the one to lead. And not just because I’m the only one here. “
But I don’t think he recognizes that everyone sees him as important as we do. He’s humble.
Josh, you began this journey with “Infinite Frontier” almost two years ago now. We’ve spoken in the past about how you see “Dark Crisis” as wrapping up this chapter of your DC work. How close to where you thought this was going to wrap up did it actually turn out?
JW: I would say there are only little things that changed. But when it comes to the really big stuff with Black Adam, Nightwing, Deathstroke, the Justice League, and the idea there is no justice league moving forward, a lot of that was built into the beginning. So I knew that stuff. And I would say, at least a year and a half ago, I knew a lot of the emotional stuff. But there are little pieces of story that have changed, you know, because again, it’s like, DC is bigger than one person. And it’s like, there’s a lot of other writers, a lot of other editors. So some of those pieces of move, like for example, like, you know, I wanted to have the Green Arrow family reunion here. And then we didn’t have room for it, so it was like, well, let’s give him his own book to do that story. Instead of rushing some of the stuff, let’s actually split it up into books.
But yeah, the big stuff never changed. My perspective on some things with DC has maybe changed a little bit, like my thoughts on some stuff. And I definitely feel like this is closing this chapter, even with the Green Arrow continuation, I feel like “Superman” is a new start. The last few years [of my stories] have had a lot of darkness in them. That’s part of the story. And so for me in a lot of ways, it’s like, on the other side, I think I grew as a creator, and my point of view of my own writing and my thoughts on DC and a lot of stuff involving my career. I’ve definitely changed over the last two years. S
Continued belowI’ve read every DC event from “Crisis on Infinite Earths” onward, either in the moment or retroactively, and there are tropes that come up for almost every event. And I think that in a lot of ways, some of those things have to be there. But like you said, it feels smaller and more emotionally focused than other big DC events. Does that change indicate in how you see your careers going forward?
JW: How have I changed as a creator? That is a longer conversation. I’m really happy with all the stuff we’re doing. I think the idea that I was trying to say something more personal from the beginning. Like I said before, I feel that DC is more than one person, and I think by the ending, it is clear that it’s best when everyone is working together, both in terms of the characters in the universe, but also creative, editorial, publishing, all of it, that’s still my opinion on it. That hasn’t actually changed. If anything, it became more affirmed than it was when we started.
DS: I think I learned a lot doing this project. I had the chance to improve a lot of aspects of my art. And what I look forward to now is just continued work for DC, doing great projects. For the next one, I want to explore more storytelling. I’m studying and I’m preparing myself because I want to move forward with my storytelling, not just the cool looking drawings, but experimenting more and trying to bring it to another level.
