Yesterday, Image’s hit series Pigs reached the finale of it’s first arc. With a fantastic cover by Becky Cloonan, the fourth issue saw series creators Nate Cosby, Ben McCool and Breno Tamura bringing the ruckus with their usual flair of dark humor and character-infused spy thrills. Suffice it to say, if you are for some reason not buying Pigs, you’re missing out on quite a gem from Image.
As the first arc reaches its wrap up point and the gang gets ready for both the second arc and the release of the first trade volume (in February of next year), we had the opportunity to speak with Ben and Nate about the book – from the controversial sixth cover, to their individual history with the Cold War, and to the revelation of just who would score the theoretical Pigs movie!
Not only that, but we have an exclusive two-page preview of Pigs #5 attached. If that doesn’t get you intrigued for all the goodness hiding behind the cut, I’m not sure what can.
Without further ado, hit the cut to find a very intricate chat with Ben and Nate. As a note spoilers galore for the fourth issue, so if you haven’t read it yet (it came out yesterday, leaving you with little excuses!), you might want to hold off for a bit.
Let’s begin with the cover. So far, every issue’s cover has been illustrated by a different artist, with the first issue by Jock, this issue by Becky Cloonan, and the next issue by Dave Gibbons. How did the decision come about to change cover artists per issue instead of a single cover artist or introducing variants of some sort?
Ben McCool: Variety is the spice of life, as they say! Also, we have lots of extremely talented pals who were game for contributing. Remarkable, I know…
In all honesty, it was simply a case of ‘why not?’ It certainly keeps things fresh and interesting, and readers won’t know what to expect from month to month. And with ongoing books, the ability to surprise or even astound your audience is an enormously useful tool. We think we’ve performed the latter by roping Mr. Dave Gibbons in for issue #5’s cover duties!
Nate Cosby: The decision to use different artists on the covers was there pretty much from the beginning. It was a conscious decision. There’s something to be said for having a single artist doing covers in order to have a consistency of tone…but there’s also a benefit of having different artists bringing their unique styles, and switching it up every month.
Given how important a cover is to a comic, what do you think these different guest artists bring to the book — both from a story perspective and that of exterior glamour?
BM: To me, it’s fascinating to see different artists’ interpretation of the characters and the world we’ve come up with–each artist has his/her own unique vision, and as such we can guarantee that readers will never have to worry about Pigs covers being uniform or homogeneous. Some covers relate directly to what occurs inside, while others offer a more general overview of the story’s traits and themes. But either way, we’re lucky enough to boast some of the best covers the industry has to offer on a monthly basis.
NC: Cover artists are your best visual advertisement. And we’ve been INCREDIBLY lucky to have some of the greatest artists in comics give their takes on Pigs. For most of the covers, we’ve asked for a combination of American, Cuban and Russian iconography…and then we’ve let the artists do their thing. When you’re working with Jock, Francesco Francavilla, Amanda Conner, Becky Cloonan, Dave Gibbons, Christian Ward, Humberto Ramos…you don’t want to dictate or over-edit them. You give them some ideas and let them work their magic.
Speaking of covers, the sixth issue’s cover by Christian Ward recently saw some light controversy due to its use of bloody swastikas all over a character’s body, which conflicted with a German law that prohibits the use of these symbols in their country leading to the cover’s censorship in Previews. Obviously the book has heavy political overtones, but despite the vilification of US government officials and a literal attack on “the President”, it’s a cover with swastikas that ends up being the most outwardly controversial — and in another country to boot! Given that art is a form of expression and both Nazis and censorship suck no matter what, how did the news of the censorship weigh on you?
Continued belowBM: Indeed, Christian’s (brilliant) cover caught Diamond’s attention, and as a result, was largely obscured when featured in its catalogue. I was personally disappointed with the decision, as it offers a creatively sublime glimpse at the story’s content–it takes place inside San Quentin prison, with the Aryan Brotherhood playing a prominent role. That’s not to say the book is ‘pro-Nazi’ or anything. Quite the contrary, in fact. But I’ll say no more–I don’t want to give anything away!
To wrap up my thoughts on this issue, censoring something abhorrent and/or evil doesn’t make it go away; instead, it promotes ignorance and naivety. And these are two things I don’t want associated with Pigs, or myself. (On a related note, be sure to support the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund–these guys assist people impacted by censorship and similar miscarriages of justice, and play a crucial role in our industry’s upkeep.)
NC: We went into the situation with our eyes open. When you tell an artist, “draw a guy completely covered in swastikas,” you’re pretty aware that some people are going to have some reservations. But the cover has been fully supported by Image’s publisher, Eric Stephenson, and Christian really came up with a breathtaking piece of art. The cover’s banned in Germany, but it’ll be allowed everywhere else. And the point of the cover is to show the new audience the kind of tone and story to expect inside Pigs. We’re really not pulling punches here. It’s a messed-up book, and it’s gonna get messier.
Moving on to the story — Nate, you were initially known (at least, to us) for your assembled work on All Ages books, and Ben, you were fresh in our minds for your recent horror comics at Image. Now you’re both working on a political thriller. How different is the jump stylistically to work in one specific genre and then to go out all out in a brand new ballpark?
BM: I always like to keep my projects varied, and enjoy working within a variety of different genres. I hadn’t done anything like this (political thriller) before, and once we started development, I knew it was something that I was going to enjoy enormously. Switching between styles and genres doesn’t intimidate me–so long as the characters/story are solid, I’m always up for the challenge!
NC: Been pretty natural for me, really. I think more in terms of character than genre. No matter the audience, you have to care about the characters, get in their heads and figure out their motivations, whether they’re dictating the direction of the story, or reacting to machinations thrust upon them. I’ve done (and still do) lots of All-Ages projects, and the benefit of that experience is an understanding that storytelling is universal. Don’t talk down to an audience, no matter the demographic.
Despite the Cold War being over, you’re writing a modern story that continues a conflict/plays with ideals from an intense political situation that ended two decades ago. Speaking from myself alone having grown up in a Russian household, I can remember some of the frightening political debates birthed from massive paranoia of that time. Is anything in Pigs ostensibly rooted in your childhood, from watching news or hearing people talk about how the Russians were going to come get us in the middle of the night?
BM: Not so much personal experience for me–I was a ‘80s baby (born in England), and too young to understand exactly what was going on at the time. However, it’s always been a source of great fascination to me. Though Russia never actually engaged in any military action with the US or its NATO allies, the tension felt by all involved was astounding. We’re definitely looking to build on that in Pigs!
NC: I have vivid memories of the 1980s, playing in the den at night as my parents watched the news. From my incredibly limited perspective, Russia was this big, red, unknowable enemy that had unlimited bombs behind an iron curtain, and their only goal was to destroy our democracy. That obviously wasn’t true, but that perception, that fear, is not leagues away from the modern fear of terrorism. The difference is that we’re not afraid of a country…we’re afraid of groups of individuals that could be anywhere. They could strike at any time. And their motivations are warped and misguided, but real. It’s scary, but fascinating. I’m not a paranoid person by nature, but I’m very interested in the idea of paranoia, and the roots of that paranoia.
Continued belowThis book and the “Pigs” themselves are very much the ‘other side’ of this story, based on the typical types of story we receive in “US vs. Russia” yarns. To what end do you even want us to actively root for the bad guy? Not to jump ahead to the end of the issue too much, but should we be looking forward to these “villains” getting their comeuppance?
BM: As Pigs progresses, you’ll see that the term “bad guy” is a little ambiguous–though the outside perspective would certainly suggest that the book’s protagonists are villains, there’s much more than meets the eye. The willingness of some cell members is starting to become questionable, and that particular angle is only just getting started…
NC: I don’t think you have to root for your protagonists. You need to understand them, or want to understand. Pigs definitely doesn’t have a pro-terrorism slant. We’re showing you a group of people that have been trained from birth to carry out missions on behalf of a country they’ve never seen. These are not “turned” agents. They’ve always been this way, it’s all they know. Are they “good”? Are they “bad”? It’s not that simple. All they know is that they were created for a single purpose. And if they don’t fulfill that purpose…what are they?
As the book’s fourth issue opens, I think it’s fairly clear you guys aren’t holding back any punches when it comes to going after fictitious US Senators with a fairly brutal torture sequence. Given the overt political nature of the book, how much of yourselves do you think sneaks into the book under the guise of these KGB operatives and their missions?
BM: Ha, great question! I’d like to think a little of myself trickles into everything I work on, though slow knife torture hasn’t yet become a pastime of time. That said, the Italian food I ordered on Saturday night took almost an hour to arrive, and sinister temptation was starting to creep in… (I kid, I kid!)
NC: We’ve definitely tried to get into the Pigs’ heads, and show how serious they are about the mission. Personally, I’m not a terribly political person, don’t consider myself Republican or Democrat…and I think that helps me understand the Pigs’ mindset: They don’t care about politics. Politics are beside the point. When the Pigs are assigned to kill you, they don’t care if you’re left or right. You’re the target and you’ve gotta die. Simple as that.
With the ensemble cast we have so far, each character has really managed to maintain a unique voice, from the quiet yet intense voice of Viktor, the sympathetic Felix, or the more brazen Havana. Given the collaborative nature of the book, are there any particular tricks use to “get into character”, as it were?
BM: We’re really pleased with our characters in Pigs, and their own unique voices and nature will develop as we go along. As I mentioned before, there are varying degrees of enthusiasm toward the mission at hand, with each character having their own distinctive perspective of what’s expected from them and how they should conduct themselves. These will become more and more apparent as the months pass!
NC: All of the team’s voices came pretty naturally. When writing them, you have to remember where each of them are coming from: Felix has seen the most of the world, he wants the Pigs to have a wider perspective on what they’re doing. Viktor’s the youngest, and short-tempered…the easiest solution (to him) is to kill everything. Alek is a gentle giant, doing only what’s necessary. Ekat is reserved, afraid to step out of her sister’s shadow. And Ekat’s sister, Havana…Havana is everything the Pigs’ parents wanted this team to be. She will do ANYTHING in the interest of the mission.
Is there a particular character that resonates particularly well with either of you? Or even one that just remains that much more fun to write?
BM: Havana is a real piece of work, and the next story arc will very much highlight that. Great fun to write! But each character brings something to the table in their own individual way.
Continued belowNC: Viktor’s becoming my favorite to write. He just doesn’t care. He’s anxious to use his talents and abilities. It’s fun for him. He’s the loose cannon. And Havana’s always icy fun. Because Ben and I know what she’s thinking, and it’s NOT what she’s saying.
One of the central themes of the book appears to be redemption, apparent especially with whether or not Felix, aka the White Russian, is truly a redeemed person now. We get little inklings of his dark past, but given where he’s at when the rest of the group picks him up, it’s clear he wants no part of this. To what extent can he be redeemed, given his past? Is redemption even possible for him, or for anyone in the book?
BM: I don’t want to go into too much detail about this, as Felix’s role (and indeed history) is crucial to the overall story. He’s up until this point been the team’s voice of reason, at least so far as the audience is concerned–Felix is definitely the least willing member. But whether or not he’ll find his redemption (or something different entirely) remains to be seen…
NC: Well…Felix left Cuba ten years ago. Why he left, what he’s done since then…all of that info is coming in the next few arcs. But I will say that there is no real “redemption” for Felix. No one comes out of this story clean. He can try to do good now, but some things can’t be taken back.
Another central element is the sense of duty — that since this is what these characters are trained to do, this is what they must now do. Since we are seeing elements of Felix’s past influence his future and his handling of the duties, how important are the histories of all the characters to their current situation? Is this an element that will be continuously explored as the book goes on?
BM: Absolutely. The flashbacks (and flash forwards) are as critical to the tale as the “modern day” goings on–everything will intertwine. The history of the team and its members will be (we hope) what makes the eventual outcome so hard-hitting.
NC: History and legacy are incredibly important in Pigs. The flashbacks and flash-forwards dictate add depth to what’s presently happening. And we’re not done showing you what happened in Cuba. The shadow of history, the Pigs’ parents, the memories from Cuba…the Pigs cannot escape their past. Their course is set, and it would take remarkable will to veer.
One of the bigger elements of this issue is with Viktor and his torture of Senator Rocky Collins, but it approaches it from two angles — the first is Viktor’s mission to retrieve a series of important numbers (making him the bad guy), and the second is Viktor’s vengeance for a young boy (making the senator the bad guy). To what end is it important to establish that not only are Viktor and the Pigs “bad guys,” but so are the people they are going after?
BM: Let’s put it like this: in Pigs, everybody has skeletons in the closet. Some are just more brittle than others… Certain Pigs targets are more loathsome than others, and the same can be said for our main characters. Family-friendly reading all the way!
NC: I wouldn’t necessarily say Viktor has vengeance. He has information. Viktor may be rough, but everything he did in that room, every piece of data he revealed, it was all tactical. Remember, the Pigs’ contact with their superiors has, so far, ONLY been through Viktor. He gets the missions. He knows what and what not to tell to the rest of the team.
But to answer your question…yes, it’s important to us that the audience understand that the Pigs’ missions aren’t random. If the Pigs are coming after you, you probably aren’t a saint.
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| Exclusive look at a page from Pigs #5 |
The main opposition to what the characters are doing right now is Felix, and Felix alone. In a sleeper cell of characters fiercely loyal to seemingly antiquated ideals, why not just keep everyone loyal to the Mother Country? How important to the story and/or the group dynamic is it to have a member who no longer lives for the mission?
BM: As it stands, it appears Felix is flying solo in terms of violence aversion. But as the heat intensifies around the cell, so does the characters’ attitudes… Lots more twists and turns to come. And as for loyalty to the Mother Country… Well, you’ll juts have to wait and see!
NC: They’ve all been raised the same, but they’re not the same people. This team wasn’t picked from a group, they’re the children of a KGB sleeper cell. So some are going to buy into the cause more than others. It’s a faith-based issue for each of them.
As for Felix…Felix hasn’t been with the team for a decade. He’s essentially a de-programmed Jason Bourne, trying to forget the horrible things he’s done, and start a new family in America. He’s found that the things he was told about America aren’t true. He’s not a zealot anymore, doesn’t believe in this cause. And there are real reason for this, which you’ll find out very soon…
This issue wraps up the first arc, and in particular drops a bomb shell of a final twist as you tease that one or more of our characters is going to meet their maker very soon. Instead of telling the series fairly linearly, how did the decision come about to tease where the team will end up by the time we reach the interrogation scenes that take place “Soon”?
BM: Me and Nate spent considerable time laying out the story’s framework, major incidents and general goings-on, and in doing so decided that this was the best suited style of storytelling in which to present Pigs. We certainly hope that readers agree, particularly as the story moves along. A glimpse into the future, along with a look at the past, really helps heighten the drama and emotion experienced in the present. Just you wait and see!
NC: You’re seeing “Soon” because we want the audience to know where this is going, that the Pigs are not messing around. It’s the writing equivalent of flipping to the last page of a long espionage novel to see what ultimately happened, then going back to figure out the how.
The skewed timeline element, in that we see the story from the past, present and future, offers up an interesting take on structure for the book. Obviously the over-arcing story of the book was mapped out long ago, but to what end do you decide when to introduce what?
BM: Pacing is critically important, especially with an ongoing book. As I mentioned before, we spent plenty of time fine-tuning this before we started writing, and so feel comfortable with how the story is being told. We know exactly what’s going to happen (and when), and believe we’ve spread things out finely but substantially.
NC: We created the entire Pigs timeline before actually writing any scripts. We went from 1961 until a few years from right now. And it became clear to us that the story was too big, too layered, to try and tell in order. You wouldn’t see the big picture that way. You’re seeing now, you’re seeing before, and you’re seeing right before everything’s over, all at the same time. It’s how Ben and I see it in our heads.
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| Exclusive look at a page from Pigs #5 |
With the first arc wrapped up, how are you feeling about the reception to the book so far?
BM: I’m delighted! Very happy to see readers have responded to the book so positively, especially as it’s still so early. I can’t emphasise enough that we’re just getting started; we think of this first arc as a foundation on which to build our magnum opus. But that’s not to say #4 doesn’t go out with one helluva bang!
Continued belowNC: There’s been a good bit of love, which is nice. I’m not accustomed to getting complimented for writing, having been an editor for so long. But I’m hoping we’ve packed the book with enough intrigue and questions that people keep picking it up. We want to tell the full story of the Pigs, and that’ll take years. Hopefully our audience stays for the whole ride.
As a final wrap-up question, if Pigs were to suddenly be made into a big budget Hollywood movie, who would compose the score? Off the top of my head I imagine Hans Zimmer, but that’s just me.
BM: I’m a huge fan of film soundtracks (brilliant writing music), and I appreciate many different composers. However, I’d say that the Atticus Ross/Trent Reznor pairing is my current fave: the Social Network soundtrack is astounding, and their latest collaboration on The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo is just as good. Get those guys on Pigs and I’d be a very happy chappy…
NC: A movie’d be nice! Atticus Ross/Trent Reznor seems to have the scoring game locked down right now, having won the Oscar for The Social Network and from what I’ve heard of The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. I figure they’d bring a nice sense of dread to the flick.
