The webcomic creator is never far from their audience. Be it through social media, public email addresses, Discord servers, or simply the comments section beneath a page, there is a rapport and a conversation that is developed that is unique to the medium. We’re continuing those conversations here, albeit a little more formally, by interviewing webcomics creators to pick their brains about craft, storytelling, and their personal experiences with the medium.
After a break for the winter season, we’re back to chat with Hamish Steele, creator of “Pantheon” and “DeadEndia”, a comic which has had quite the journey over the years, and is now being made into an animated series over at Netflix. Get ready to get spooky y’all!
To get us started, what was your first experience with Webcomics?
Hamish Steele: Reading or writing? I think for reading, I was probably reading some pretty amateur pixel-comics on video game forums in the early/mid 00s. Stuff where the primary selling point was “what if Mario but violent”. Nevertheless that “just going for it” attitude was pretty inspiring and all throughout my time at school, I was always planning webcomics and other art projects on the side. I must’ve started four or five webcomics before I was 20, none of them lasting more than a few months at most.
Were webcomics something you ever thought you’d enter full time, or hoped to, or was it a medium you enjoyed experimenting in?
HS: I was always desperate to tell stories through any means possible. I experimented with stand up, writing prose, scripts, animation, anything. However, I found comics were the best way to communicate all the very visual ideas in my brain and get them in front of people as cheaply and quickly as possible. And then webcomics were of course the extension of that – didn’t need a publisher or an agent or an editor (all things that I’d end up being very grateful for!) I could just put it out there and get instant validation ha ha. In some ways it was a means to an end, but I ended up loving it and there’s lots of things about webcomics I miss whenever I’m working in other mediums.
Stand up? Wow, that must’ve been quite a different experience. How’d you end up toying with that? I just rarely see it in a list like this.
HS: It wasn’t just stand up either! I had a real “comedian” phase. I did Youtube videos and wrote pilots for live action sitcoms. I didn’t stop for any particular reason either, I just got more invested in drawing and art. My brother is now a stand up too, so I think just the need to entertain runs in the family.
That’s amazing. Do you think this dabbling helped inform the way you do comedy in your works, like “Pantheon” and “Deadendia?”
HS: Absolutely – I think standup but particularly improv is an invaluable skill that can be transferred to many walks of life. I think it’s been very helpful for me in the world of pitching!
I can imagine! So, before we get too much farther in, we should probably give a quick overview for those who don’t know about the webcomic we’re here for, haha. “Deadendia” has had a bit of a journey too, going from animated short on Cartoon Hangover on Youtube to webcomic to graphic novel series and now to a Netflix show. Let’s start with the short. How’d that come about?
HS: I think it was that “just going for it” attitude I talked about earlier. I was studying animation at uni in 2013-ish, and saw a tumblr post from Cartoon Hangover asking for submissions. At the time, I had been drawing short comics featuring proto-Barney and proto-Norma (the lead characters of “DeadEndia”), so I just sent Cartoon Hangover those. They gave me a little round of feedback and I worked the comics into a rough storyboard which they loved and eventually agreed to make with me! It was incredibly low budget, a really small team and I felt a little in over my head. I think the roughness shows in the short but I am still pretty proud of it.
Continued belowCartoon Hangover and I shopped the short around to a few channels, and I developed a pitch bible which expanded the world much more than the short. But when it became clear nobody was interested, I decided to adapt the pitch bible into a webcomic instead.
I gotta revise that timeline then, going from comic to show to comic to comic to show, haha. Did you end up exhausting the pitch bible for the webcomic version or has it extended to the graphic novels?
HS: All the pitch bible really added was the theme park setting and the character Courtney. It briefly hinted in one episode that Barney maaaaay have a date with another boy, but at the time even suggesting LGBTQIA+ representation in a children’s show would get you laughed out of the room. When I came to do the webcomic, I felt quite liberated to explore all the themes I wanted to. I think the list of things mentioned in that original pitch that made it into the Netflix show would be quite small.
Did you find working on a webcomic schedule (a page or so a week, if I remember correctly) to be comparable to the work on the short, or later on the remake “The Watcher’s Test?”
HS: The big difference isn’t the work but your relationship with your audience. I’ve had a few interactions with people who’ve read the book versions, but it’s a little removed. Whereas, every week when I uploaded a page, there would be a little bit of a hype and speculation and excitement for next time. The downside is once you upload a page, that’s canon. That’s part of the story you can’t change later. Writing a full book, you get to make sure everything matters, but making a webcomic and sort of making it up as you go along, means I think the webcomic had a few more loose ends then the book version. You can of course write a webcomic out fully before starting if you are smart but I didn’t because I am not ha ha. But that’s that stand up / improv experience. I kind of like to stay on my toes when storytelling. I think if I wrote it all out before, I would have got bored waiting to get to the exciting bits.
There’s a bit of a dance to a webcomic, trying to make sure it’s ready for the page by page without being totally planned out, since it takes so long to make. What made you decide to switch from the webcomic to publishing it through Nobrow? Other than them accepting a pitch, haha.
HS: I always drew it with printing in mind and in fact I was self publishing physical editions of each chapter to sell at cons anyway. Nobrow published it because they’d published my previous book Pantheon. I wasn’t sure if “DeadEndia” fitted their brand really, but I think they were looking for a book in that kind of YA area.
You mentioned above that the webcomic had looser ends than the graphic novel. When making the change, do you think these were a result of you getting a better grasp of the story & characters over the course of the webcomics’ creation or more in hindsight, taking stock of the work once book one was done?
HS: Yes but also format. I think of the webcomic as a tv series, with lots of potential plotlines to explore, and the book as a movie, where you want a satisfying, complete beginning, middle and end. Just putting the webcomic into book form was quite a strange read. So we just cut down a few things, gave more “screen time” to the characters that mattered and less to the ones who didn’t. If someone buys a book off a shelf, I want them to feel like they’ve been given a complete story (even if there’s sequels). Whereas I think the expectation with webcomics might be for something more open ended.
Do you find yourself missing that open endedness, now that you’ve been working on the graphic novels?
HS:Yeah a little bit. Part of it was just trying out characters and seeing who people responded to. The characters of Logs and Badyah only grew because of their positive reception when I uploaded their first pages. If I hadn’t had that instant response, they might not have been so major. I do plan to return to webcomics soon, because I miss that method of storytelling.
Continued belowShifting to production for a second, how do you primarily work? Is it all digital, physical, a combination of the two? What about your preferred method makes it, well, your preferred method?
HS: All digital these days. I do still sometimes do physical personal work but I just prefer keeping all the webcomic art in the format it’s going to be most seen in.
From writing/scripting to drawing to coloring to lettering, what do you find to be the most difficult part of the process?
HS: Ha. Drawing. I don’t think I’m the strongest artist at all. I’m not fishing for compliments either, I think my passions lie in writing. It’s why my current comics projects are collaborations with some much better artists than me.
I find that surprising, since you went to animation school and it’s sounded like you’ve been drawing for a long time. Was that something you discovered over time or you always knew draws was, to put it crassly, a means to a storytelling end?
HS: I think animation school made me realize that I didn’t quite have that specific passion for art that others did. I was surrounded by people who loved the animation process, and I think I loved the animation final product. I think that’s actually why I’ve been an alright director and showrunner, because I am very inspired by collaboration and making sure I know my own limitations and how best to utilize the skills of the team.
How’s it been at Netflix as compared to Cartoon Hangover? Very, very different scale and scope, I know.
HS: Well we made the original short, about five crew members, in our bedrooms. And then for the Netflix show we had a crew of over a hundred and a swanky new studio all kitted out to begin production. But then the pandemic hit, so we’re all back making the show in our bedroom again. So… the more things change the more they stay the same.
Hahaha. What’s the current plan for Deadendia, the show, if you’re allowed to talk about it? Will it impact the third book (I presume there’s a third book) at Nobrow?
HS: The pandemic delayed things a little bit but DeadEndia Season 1 is still coming to Netflix this year (you can even search for it on the app and save it to your watch list, which excited me a lot!). The plans for the show and books are pretty separate. I hope to do a third book but nothing’s officially confirmed or announced yet.
As the writer of both, I am able to lean into making them different experiences. I think if someone else was adapting my books, I’d have told them to stick to every word, but because I’m the one adapting it, I feel like I can take things in a slightly unique direction.
Jumping back a little, you mentioned how the pitch bible could only hint at Barney going on a date with another boy, due to the attitudes of studio execs re: children’s shows. Now, this is less so but have you found it to still be a battle to tell the story you want?
HS: I’ve been in the world of animation development for about 10 years. This might have been the 10 most eventful years in animation in terms of representation. Things have changed so much, so quickly, with very little acknowledgment. Only 5 years ago, I was being told by execs that it was inappropriate for me to even mention I was gay when promoting shows for children. Nowadays, all the studios are trying to get a piece of the gay action now that it’s proven to be profitable (something the world of webcomics have known for decades).
At Netflix, there has never been a battle but I had a battle with myself at the start. I found myself avoiding talking about the queer aspects for fear of the same thing happening that had happened at other studios. But turns out I had nothing to worry about. The show has multiple queer and trans human characters who literally say the words “trans” and “gay”. It’s an undeniable, canonical aspect of the show and I’m very, very grateful. They even pushed us to make it clearer in the early days, as I think I was still subconsciously trying to closet myself.
Continued below
Yeah, webcomics have always been a space that’s felt free to reflect the world better than most major media. Despite the strides made elsewhere, do you find the community in webcomics to be more accepting of both bold storytelling choices and more inclusive and representational characters?
HS: The audience has always been out there and ready for stories like this, it’s just taken a long time for big, stuffy companies to realize this. Webcomics in some ways cut out the middlemen, the several stages of doubters you have to get through usually to get your story out there.
Do you find yourself missing the direct feedback of an audience as you make the work?
HS: A little bit, but having such a big crew recreates that feeling a little bit. One of my favourite parts is working with the voice actors. They’re part of the team but also removed enough that when we send them scripts or show them storyboards, they get to be our first audience and their feedback is always very pleasing!
Any funny stories you can share?
HS: Our lead actors end up voicing quite a few minor side characters. Alex Brightman (who voices Pugsley) also voices a side-character whose first line was just the sound of chewing. Ever the method actor, we went into great detail about how this person would chew, what led them to eating this particular food, whether they were enjoying it, not enjoying it, indifferent. And then every time he voices his side-character, we replay the chewing to get him back in the mindset. I don’t know – is that funny??
This is the kind of behind the scene story I live for, haha. I’m a big“watch every DVD extra” guy. The old DC Animated shows had the best.
HS: I keep saying I want to do an episode-by-episode commentary podcast. If I keep saying it, maybe Netflix will let it happen.
Get on this Netflix! Haha. OK, I have just a couple more questions. You mentioned earlier that you were hoping to get back into webcomics again, presumably when your workload is a lot less. What kinds of projects would you want to do? Would you try to do a long-form one again or keep it more finite?
HS: I’m planning to launch a webcomic at some point this year called “LoveRats,” which is a sort of gay retelling of “The Town Mouse and the Country Mouse,” using my own experiences of being a five-year long distance relationship between London and Australia (with my now husband!). I was inspired by “SuperMutant Magic Academy” by Jillian Tamaki – I love the idea of doing something which isn’t necessarily one linear narrative, but snapshots of a group of characters which slowly builds a world out of order. I want to try WebToons, or at least a format that isn’t designed with the usual printing page format, but something that works better exclusively online.
I’m also releasing a self published book called “Croc and Roll” this spring, with art by George Williams. I want to get as many people reading it as possible, so even though it’ll be a book, I plan to upload it online too.
How’d I forget about “Croc & Roll?!” Music in comics is difficult.
HS: Yes, I’m not sure I’ve figured it out either but we will also be releasing a tie-in concept album to listen to as you read!
These are the kinds of projects I love. Reminds me of the “Mind MGMT” kickstarter, which had a record to play as a read-a-long, that held extra information. To jump back a sec, are you planning on drawing and writing “LoveRats” yourself or will it be another collaboration?
HS: I plan on drawing it. I’m hoping the weekly challenge will revitalize my love of drawing!
Speaking of weekly challenges, you had a project a while ago where you redrew superheroes with new costumes, if I remember right. I would be remiss if I didn’t at least mention it because they’re great. Did that sprout out of something like this, i.e. keeping up a weekly routine?
HS: Yeah. It started with the Batman Rogues gallery and it really helped me work how I liked to work. It was less about finding a style of finished product, much more about working out how to enjoy putting pen to paper.
Continued belowDid you have a favorite redesign?
HS: I think I’ve drawn Superman four hundred times and I plan to draw him four hundred more. I love that boy.
Alrighty. To close us out, what are three webcomics you’d recommend to fans of “Deadendia” or your work writ-large?
HS: Absolutely loving “Hallows” by Mayday Trippe, uploading on their patreon and I’ve only properly just started it but enjoying “BUUZA!!” by Shazleen Khan. I don’t read as many webcomics as I should though, so always keen to receive recommendations.
