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| This is apparently a real thing |
There’s trouble afoot at the Circle K my friends. And by that obscure Bill & Ted’s Excellent Adventure quote, I mean DC is getting weird with some of their decision making. Books are canceled, books are added, Liefeld is taking over, logos are revealed and any number of other peculiar things, and we have to say we are fascinated by each and every move.
For today’s Multiversity 101, I’m joined by fellow MC writer Brian Salvatore, as we discuss why the books that were canceled were canceled, why those six specific books were added, why 2012 is likely the Year of Liefeld, and a whole lot more. You can find our extensive discussion after the jump.
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| NYARRRRRR |
David: So Hawk and Dove was the highest selling book of the six that were canceled, but it was also the most hated arguably. Why was it time for H & D to say bye-bye in your opinion?
Brian: Well, to be fair, beyond browsing at my LCBS, I didn’t read a single issue, and I am a HUGE DC fanboy. So for me not to read it, I think says a lot about the decision. The book featured a reviled artist handling characters that are, at best, C-level, and telling stories that didn’t look super appealing.
David: Well you would be very surprised to find something out about this book Brian… It was really bad.
Brian: Gasp!
David: But to be honest, I have to admit I enjoyed reading the issues I did. Well, scratch that. I enjoyed talking about them afterwards on our video podcast. Basically, it’s the Manos, Hands of Fate of comic books.
Brian: Just oversized, reversed knee joints and kids making out in a car, unrelated to the story?
David: Unrelated, but there was a zombie who liked to yell “NYARRR!” that would fit well. It was the “movie that was so bad it’s kind of good” of comics. In my Best and Worst of 2011 write-up, I called it the “(Best) Worst Book.”
Brian: I can see the appeal of that on a “hey, this is insane!” level, but you have to think that a relaunch would be the perfect time to put that creative team that would really knock the book out of the park on a book. Was this creative team at least well-matched to the material?
David: Oh, no doubt. And no, unless to you “well-matched” means “adept at making a comic that would make mid-90’s superhero trash comics proud.” The fact of the matter is this was a bad comic that was ill-fitting with DC’s overall plan AND its sales more than halved from issue #1 to issue #4. It was dead from day one.
Brian: The night of the midnight Flashpoint #5/Justice League #1 release, Dan DiDio came to my LCBS. And he mentioned to me that there would be a new batch of books coming out in the spring because “some of our books are destined to fail.” And all I could think of was Hawk and Dove.
David: Sounds about right.
Brian: That was literally the thought that ran through my head, so that book being cancelled is less than shocking. Was there anything that could have saved it?
David: No. Hawk & Dove just aren’t that interesting in the best of situations. With a checked-out feeling Sterling Gates writing and Rob Liefeld on art…well, let’s say that isn’t in the vicinity of “best of situations.”
 | Continued below
| Farewell, Sweet Prince |
Brian: Ok, so moving on to the book that is probably going to be missed the most around the MC offices, O.M.A.C. Man, I will miss this book.
David: I have to admit, I didn’t love it as much as everyone else. It was fun for sure, but it wasn’t anything that inspired me to add it to my pull and get in the business of sculpting my hair into a blue electric mohawk. And to me, it was an obvious cut. It was an obvious one from day one.
Brian: I won’t argue with any of that, but I think that in a comics landscape so devoid of fun right now, it was a beacon of silliness, and that has to count for something.
David: Oh, I agree. It was a really fun book. But a lot of things are fun that just don’t ultimately work, and this book was a) a mostly unknown character to your average comic fan, b) devoid of any currently hot talent, and c) only really obviously tied to Frankenstein at this point (although Cadmus obviously runs with deep ties to the DCU). It was basically a non-starter. It was the lowest selling book month one, and it was just a ticking time bomb of cancellation at that point. I think the biggest problem with a book like this getting canceled is what you said: it’s fun. Everyone in the industry seemed to enjoy it. It still didn’t make it, and I think it’s for the reasons I mentioned. That’s how the industry works, sadly.
Brian: I’m shocked that having the Co-Publisher of the company co-writing it didn’t get it through to a full year.
David: DiDio has worked on books before that had early deaths. He’s kind of a kiss of death for a book, in my opinion.
Brian: O.M.A.C., like Hawk and Dove I would assume, will be popping up in Justice League International in future issues (O.M.A.C. was teased over at The Source, Hawk and Dove were two of the potential team members on the screen in JLI #1 [look to your right]), so it isn’t as if all this work went nowhere; if this was an 8-issue miniseries, I think it would’ve been deemed a huge success. It recontextualized and introduced the character to a new audience, and told a fun story along the way. Which is not something I can say for our next book, Mister Terrific.
David: Well, I will let you lead this one because…if I remember correctly…you wrote the review for its first issue.
Brian: Yes I did…and I gave it a 0.0
David: You know, that isn’t a good grade Brian. What would you say it did wrong…per se?
Brian: If you can tell me one thing, ONE THING HARPER, that it did right, I owe you a Coke.
David: I didn’t hate the first issue. I mean, I think the biggest problem many people had was the kind of…weird sort of self-deprecating racism that took place in it. Its art wasn’t horrible. It wasn’t great, but it wasn’t awful. And I was entertained by the villain in theory. But yeah, it certainly wasn’t good. My curse is I can find redeeming characteristics to almost any comic.
Brian: The racism was a huge red flag to me. As was the art – I can’t believe you say it wasn’t horrible. I got physically angry reading that first issue.
David: Well, you gave it a 0. That much is obvious.
Brian: Eric Wallace and co. took one of my favorite characters and reduced it to a terrible, terrible mess. Now, granted, because it is a character I love, I was a little more heated.
David: Oh, see that’s where the difference lies! I’ve always been Mister Terrific neutral.
Continued belowBrian: But this is a book that’s cancellation can’t be considered a shock.
David: But yeah, I totally understand that. That’s Blue Beetle for me, and, well, that’s a story for six months from now probably.
Brian: Yeah, I might even put money on that.
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| If Frank was the star, the book would be alive |
David: It wasn’t selling well. People hated it. It was generally badly received, and it deserved a death no glorious T-Ball could save him from. Alright, next book…another review book from you. Men of War! Brian! Why did you dislike this book, and more specifically, why do you think it was canceled?
Brian: Well, let me say this: I wanted to like this book; I think DC was spot on in trying to have a war book – however, I felt that this book, starting at issue #1, was just a clusterfuck of clichés and scenes from every military movie you’ve ever seen. I didn’t get any charge from reading this material, and I can only assume that the general public agreed with me. But you liked this book somewhat, correct?
David: Well, I thought the opening story from Ivan Brandon and Tom Derenick was a pretty fascinating story, at least in the intro. I like that it minimized Sgt. Rock at first and started the story organically, as opposed to throwing everyone in knee deep. It was a true introduction issue, which I couldn’t not appreciate.
Brian: I’ll see you that.
David: In my mind, its biggest failings were that it was a book that odds are the general public wouldn’t care about, it was $3.99, and I think a lot of people – myself included – would rather have one full story than a longish short story and a 8 page back-up. I would have preferred the main story at just $2.99. It wasn’t a creative bonanza by any means, but Brandon is a really solid writer at characterization and creating a lived-in world. I thought the first issue showed that (and by the way, it had middling reviews). But yeah, it was destined to die. I just don’t see how DC really saw this book as an eventual success by any means.
Brian: To me, the best part of this book, hands down, were the covers by Victor Kalvachev, who none of you cretins put on your Best Cover Artist lists except for me. But I like anthology books, and I think given the right stories, this could have worked.
David: Oh, I love Kalvachev. Don’t get me wrong, the guy is straight gangster. His Blue Estate covers are gorgeous and innovative as well. He still wouldn’t probably make my top ten for cover artists though.
Brian: But the price point was an issue, as was the lack of a really dynamite story. This is a book that did not need to be rushed out – you couldn’t have started a New 52 without Batman, but why not wait on this and acquire some great stories to roll out in year 2.
David: Exactly. I think this book is a perfect example of the central foundational issue of the DC relaunch. They had 52 in mind, so they made 52, but it diluted each and every one of them in my book. If they rolled them out in waves with really solid teams, I think they would have been better off. I think something like All-Star Western, which has a similar format, the higher price point and a similarly tough to latch onto subject matter, proves that something like this can work.
Brian: Agreed on the All-Star Western front, but if there was a slow roll out, books like Men of War wouldn’t get the boost from being part of this big new initiative, and may have sold even worse.
David: True story. That is very true. Either way, war books took it on the chin this time, because Blackhawks from Mike Costa and Ken Lashley is also part of the dearly departed.
Brian: Blackhawks may be the only book in the entire New 52 that I didn’t at least think about reading. Snorefest from jump street.
David: You know, I read it and it wasn’t that bad. Costa killed it, but the story was engaging and the characters had the slightest inklings of potential. It was just weird because it was the guy who is known for writing great GI Joe comics writing a poor man’s GI Joe for DC. And it was destroyed by messed up creative changes at every turn – not sure if you know about those.
Brian: I don’t, tell me more.
David: Basically, before the book was going to come out it was going to be – I believe – Chuck Dixon writing and a different artist. And then some shit show mess happened and everyone got pulled off the book and they installed Costa and Lashley on it with the foundation of what Dixon had started on as their base. And yeah, that book was in trouble from day one. This book was DOA.
Brian: Again, I don’t think it is a bad idea inherently, but you said it – this was a poor man’s GI Joe, written by a guy who can write the shit out of a GI Joe comic. It just felt half baked.
David: Yeah, it was doomed from the get go. Poor Blackhawks. Let’s get to the last one, which is a book that I think a lot of people will be disappointed to see fail – Static Shock.
Brian: I think people are going to be more disappointed at the fact that there won’t be a Static book than upset that this current run is going away.
David: Exactly. It’s like me with Blue Beetle. That was not the book everyone used to love. They are mourning the memory of something long dead. Static Shock was pretty damn mediocre. It had a small, passionate fan base that couldn’t build off the new version of the book to bolster sales. It just died because it was kind of crappy.
Brian: I think DC was hesitant to let anyone do anything radical with the book out of respect for the recently deceased Dwayne McDuffie, and so wanted a book that played by the rules and followed suit – but the problem with that is that McDuffie already did a bunch of great Static stories, and no one could do a “regular” Static story as well as they were done while Dwayne was overseeing them. So, instead of trying new things, the mandate was to play it safe, and by playing it safe, it just looks like a crappier version of the classic Static tales.
David: I like the idea, but I think it’s a lot more simple than that: most of the new line could be called “playing it safe.” I think that was sort of an editorial mandate line-wide from day one.
Brian: But when you play it safe with Batman, people will still buy it.
David: Exactly – the only books that really get away with sketchy business are the near-Vertigo books like Animal Man and Swamp Thing it seems. I feel for the people who wanted more from this book though. It’s a young character who is a minority and has a decent legacy to his name. It just wasn’t in the cards.
Brian: Well, I think it would be smart money to bet on seeing him in Teen Titans real soon.
David: You would think so. Maybe that’s where Jaime Reyes will end up after Blue Beetle is canceled.
Brian: I think he’ll wind up in JLI, but I could be wrong. Ditto Captain Atom, when that day comes.
The Six New Books
Let’s focus on the 6 new books that are replacing these (not so) dearly departed titles. First up is the book I am most excited about, Earth 2 by James Robinson and Nicola Scott.
David: I’m stoked on this book for a couple reasons but REALLY down on it for another. But I think Robinson fits these characters well – especially because he gets his own sandbox to play in – and Nicola Scott is flat out amazing at art. Current state, I’m leaning towards buying it. But I hate that we’re getting into a multiverse now. What happened to being new reader friendly? Keep it simple, stupid DC!
Brian: New readers can pick up on the idea of a Multiverse pretty quickly, I think. Plus, with the success of Superman: Earth One, you knew that there would be some sort of Multiverse in the DCnU.
David: But why even bother? I mean, if you’re trying to restart the whole deal and make it easier for everyone, why muddle it with parallel realities and everything? I feel like DC just needs to stop pretending this whole thing is anything but a publicity stunt to get a temporary bump in sales.
Brian: I am slightly more optimistic than you are about this whole relaunch in general, but I think we can both get behind this book, simply based on the pedigree of the creators.
David: True. Well, partially true. I’m onboard for Nicola Scott. Robinson I am dicey on.
Brian: How do you feel about the other quasi-alternate universe book, World’s Finest?
David: Man, World’s Finest kills me. My love of Kevin Maguire and George Perez isn’t destined to overcome my dislike for Levitz writing and the set-up in general. I just can’t get behind this book. It’s just…I don’t know. Blah. I can’t get excited about this at all.
Brian: Are you reading the current Huntress mini?
David: No.
Brian: Well, there is part of your problem. It is, simply put, fantastic.
David: I really like Marcus To, but I couldn’t be less interested in Huntress adventuring through Italy.
Brian: Marcos To is killing it on pencils, and Levtiz is doing a really nice job, too.
David: I just find it hard to convince myself that buying a Huntress mini is a more worthy expenditure for me than trying out a new Image series or something like The Strain from Dark Horse.
Brian: But regardless, I like the idea of having the potential for hopping between parallel Earths, but I can hear your blood pressure rising over this prospect.
David: No, I’m not upset by it in any means. It’s just not for me. More power to you for getting behind it, and to be honest, I hope you come to me and tell me World’s Finest is awesome because I love Perez and Maguire.
Brian: I mean, this is by no means a lock – the current Huntress story gives no clue to the idea that she is not on her “native” planet, and if Power Girl is the vapid Karen Starr from Mister Terrific, I might be counted out early on this one, too.
David: We shall see! I am curious as to how these two books will turn out. Both of them have potential to be great and potential to be minor train wrecks. But I do want to say – I think Earth 2 at least will sell well.
Brian: I agree.
David: Let’s hop onto the next one though: Batman Inc. from Grant Morrison and Chris Burnham. I have to say, I’m not buying it now – or haven’t been recently – and I am not likely to start with this. I know a lot of people love it, and I enjoyed it, but it wasn’t something that really got my motor running.
Brian: I liked the concept more than the actual book. On top of that, I think that not setting this book pre-Flashpoint is a HUGE mistake.
David: Yeah, that is just bizarre to me. Is Morrison going to basically write a revisionist history version of his existing storyline to make it work? That just seems weird to me. Why not just make it a standalone Elseworlds style tale?
Brian: Exactly.
David: The word continuity will eventually be the death of superhero comics, I swear.
Continued belowBrian: I’ll buy it, but I’m not terribly excited at the prospect of an issue and a half of retconning just to finish a story that I was only halfway into.
David: No kidding. Enough of that, this next one is my big sleeper special. Dial H from China Mieville and Mateus Santoluoco. I think of the six books, this one has the highest potential for me to enjoy greatly, and it is the Swamp Thing/Animal Man sleeper hit of the bunch in my opinion.
Brian: Except that it really should called Resurrection Man Without the Messy Deaths.
David: Well, both concepts have been around for a long time. I’m pretty sure Dial H precedes Resurrection Man by a good while actually.
Brian: It does, but that doesn’t mean it makes sense that there are two books with concepts so similar out at the same time.
David: Tell that to six Batman books. I hear good things about Mieville – he was working on a Swamp Thing book that was never published but the scripting was supposed to be top notch – and Santoluoco is a really, really good artist. And I dig Dial H and his whole story.
Brian: Not to beat a dead horse, but people buy Batman books. Are there really 30,000+ people who love this concept enough to buy it twice a month?
David: Well, the good news is no one is buying Resurrection Man either. In my opinion, it’s in the next wave of cancellations. I don’t think that many people will really even associate the books – I never thought of that until you mentioned it, to be honest. I can say wholeheartedly that if I buy one of these six books, it will be this one.
Brian: Wow – this is at least #4 on my depth chart. One that is certainly lower than that, however, is The Ravagers, which continues the Lobdellization (through his consigliari, Howard Mackie) of the under 21-crowd in the DCnU.
David: If DC created a marketing program that offered to pay me $2.99 to read The Ravagers, I’m pretty sure I would not read it. Speaking of books with similar concepts – this is Teen Titans with four other characters isn’t it? It’s the exact same comic with different creators and characters.
Brian: Yup, down to a tee, minus the name recognition/legacy of the four main stars.
David: Yeah, it’s insane. Why oh why would they do this to me? It’s crazy. There is a zero percent chance I even touch this book to flip through it. This book is going to be canceled fast. Or at least I think so.
Brian: I’m not as up on sales as you are – are Lobdell’s three books selling like hotcakes?
David: Teen Titans is doing great, Red Hood and the Outlaws is doing pretty solid, and Superboy is lagging a bit behind it. They all are basically top fifty sellers, with Titans in the top twenty.
Brian: So, maybe this isn’t such a bad idea from a business standpoint, but from a “Brian buying shit” standpoint, it is a clear mistake.
David: But the difference between this book and those ones is that they all have characters that are legacies. This is like taking Star Wars Episode I: The Phantom Menance, seeing it as a success from a box office standpoint, and deriving that maybe, just maybe, a Jar Jar Binks movie would make bank. I just don’t think this one is going to do it. But I genuinely hate that this book exists. It’s stupid. /rant
Brian: That point is so spot on and cutting that I feel like I need to go hug my 16 year old self walking out of the Phantom Menace.
David: I just rewatched it. Does not age well, believe it or not.
Brian: Ok, so we’re down to the strangest of the new books, and that is…GI Combat…a war book? Didn’t we just cancel two of these five minutes ago?
David: This book is so disappointing I can barely handle it Brian. I really can’t even share my reaction to this book. It’s disappointing in so many special ways.
Continued belowBrian: I can only assume that this is an anthology, priced at $3.99, of various war stories. Again, didn’t we just fucking cancel this?
David: First off, yeah, they just canceled two war books and then brought this book to life. And yes, we did just cancel this. Not only that, but they made it worse! JT Krul and Ariel Olivetti! AGH! Does DC hate us?! If Olivetti thought he didn’t like Nick Spencer’s scripts, I’m eager to see his response to JT Krul!
Brian: That is like finding out the girl you’re dating is a dude – and that dude is Gene Shalit.
David: Yeah, this is bad news. I have to share my biggest disappointment though. I love Unknown Soldier. That is an awesome legacy character. And with Palmiotti, Gray and Panosian on it? I would buy the SHIT out of that book. And John Arcudi working with Scott Kolins on a Haunted Tank book? Fuck yeah! Gimme that every month! But paired with a Krul/Olivetti GI Combat book? Not with a ten foot pole.
Brian: Yeah, I don’t think DC gets why people would want backups.
David: To bring back Star Wars, that would be like, for me, if Lucas recut A New Hope with Jar Jar replacing C-3PO in every scene. Sure, I get a Blu Ray of something I love, but it’s a horrible bastardized version.
Brian: They want backups that enhance an existing story – to have backups that completely eclipse the main story and leave a reader to lament their shortness, well, that is sort of like a band playing a one song set and then a 19 song encore.
David: Yes. There are a million analogies we can come up with that express why this is a stupid book. But it is a frustratingly stupid book because there are elements of awesome there.
Brian: The most fitting being: didn’t we JUST cancel this?
David: YES. WE DID.
LIEFELDMANIA
Okay, perfect transition my friend. Next topic is Rob Liefeld taking over three books – plotting Grifter and The Savage Hawkman and writing/drawing Deathstroke – right after a book he was working on solo now was canceled.
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| By the looks of those hips, Slade’s been taking yoga |
Brian: Oh, Robert. You’re the prettiest girl at the DC dance.
David: He is. DC is starting to remind me of Portlandia’s Dream of the 90’s skit.
Brian: YES.
David: DC – where the 90’s are still alive.
Brian: Oh God, that’s perfect.
David: We are two seconds away from chrome covers and Fred Armisen writing a Plastic Man comic…which I would read.
Brian: I would, too. There was/is a phenomenon in professional wrestling of “smarks” – or smart marks, fans that know more about what is going on behind the scenes than they are supposed to. These are the people who boo the most popular guy because they feel that management is shoving him down their throats at the expense of the “really” talented guys. The Liefeld announcement makes me feel like a smark. Maybe there are people who don’t read/write as much about comics as I do who love this guy. But I just don’t see it.
David: I don’t know. It’s weird. I mean, I feel bad for Kyle Higgins because he did some cool stuff on Deathstroke. Granted, I dropped it, but he did a good Slade. This move, perhaps more than any of their others, makes me think that DC really has no idea what the hell they are doing. Everyone says “Liefeld sells!” but come on, Hawk & Dove just collapsed in sales in no time flat. So what about that one?
Brian: A small part of me is curious to see what he does with Deathstroke, but not a big enough part to buy it.
David: Deathstroke is interesting because Lobo is supposedly involved. So we shall see. Needless to say, we will not be buying these books. For you, what’s the biggest surprise of these announcements Brian?
Continued belowBrian: GI Combat is the biggest surprise – it is just so amazingly baffling.
David: You mean because they are bringing another war book around right after canceling two?
Brian: With a worse title, a worse creative team, and for some reason, amazing backups.
David: Yeah. Peculiar.
Brian: What about for you?
David: Mine is something I shouldn’t be surprised by, but I am. Liefeld. Choosing Liefeld to take over those books is a kiss of death for a large amount of readers. That’s bad business to me. Biggest disappointment of the announcements?
Brian: O.M.A.C. – I know it would never get to issue #100, but I hoped for at least #10.
David: Make sure to pour one out for your fallen homey. For me, the biggest disappointment is either the burying of two potentially great stories behind a book by Krul and Olivetti…or Blue Beetle not being euthanized in the first wave.
Brian: What about what’s coming next? Any predictions?
David: Well, I think it’s going to be more of the same. I don’t really like that DC is seemingly stuck to the 52 number which means it’s going to eventually be a “thing,” and I think they should focus on the health of the books they have rather than forcing ideas down our throats. But I think four to six more books will be gone by issue #10, issue #12 at the latest. And Captain Marvel – or Shazam if you will – is likely to be in the next wave along with either a Tim Drake book or a Stephanie Brown one…or both.
Brian: See, I like 52 as a number of titles – it is a number that seems like it can be sustained, as opposed to Marvel’s 140 books, or however many they put out.
David: 120 issues released but not 120 titles.
Brian: I see some of the weirder/Wildstorm-ish books getting canned in time for a new Booster Gold series (and/or a Deadman or Spectre series if either of those TV shows get picked up).
David: True story. I could definitely see that. I can say that Captain Atom actually was a lower seller than Hawk & Dove. And that Voodoo, Blue Beetle, I, Vampire and Grifter are the next remaining worst sellers. I really hope I, Vampire sticks around though. That book is fantastic.
Brian: Agreed 100% – I think DC should be willing to eat a few books not selling a ton if they are critically acclaimed and have a spot in the collective universe. That said, if Justice League: Dark sticks around, just look for Andrew Bennett to join the team and I, Vampire go the way of Hawk and Dove.
David: I would be bummed about that. Super bummed.
Brian: I think eventually we’ll see 6-7 Justice League titles (Justice League: Underwater!), 6-7 Bat tiles, 6-7 Lantern books, 5 Superman books and just a few Animal Man/Swamp Thing types. DC wants JL to be its X-Men.
David: God. I would not like that. I would not like that one bit.
Brian: When they should realize it is actually their Avengers – something only intended for one or two books.
David: Marvel isn’t even following those rules any more!
Brian: I know.
David: By the way, I like to think that the Liefeld announcement was a rush move to mask the fact that their new logo is awful. It’s like…in the Damon Wayans comedy classic Major Payne…when a soldier gets shot so he breaks his finger to make him forget the bullet.
Brian: What, you don’t want your comics logo to look like they’re selling office supplies?
David: That is exactly what I thought of. They seriously seem like they aren’t a house of creatives but a house of Office Max obsessed mega nerds. No offense to those nerds, but creativity is needed for something as simple – and complex – as a logo.
