Avengers vs. X-Men is incredibly close to its start, and today at Marvel, they revealed the cover of the first issue of the series. From artist Jim Cheung, you get a very literal look at who is squaring off against who, but god only knows what will happen in its pages. Should be fun one way or another.
Last week, Marvel also revealed a series of teasers of fights that could happen in either the main series or the AvX: Versus side-series. Given that we, like the Avengers or the X-Men, cannot resist a fight, fellow MC writer Walt and I couldn’t pass up an opportunity to discuss who would win each fight and in what ridiculous way would it happen in.
Find out our picks after the jump.
Magneto vs. Iron Man
David: Alright Walt, let’s start this AvX: Versus discussion with what should be the quickest fight and what likely will be 20 pages of Tony Stark being smart and out thinking a guy could who literally could crush him like a tin can. To my knowledge, these two don’t have really any background together, save for the fact that they both likely have slept with Rogue (for sure on Magneto’s part, tried to at least on Tony’s part).
Is there anything about this fight that really shouldn’t be Iron Man saying “you’re mine, Magneto!” and Magneto responding with a boisterous “haHA!” (change in capitalization to emphasize the villainous second HA!) and then squeezing his fist and straight up murdering him?
Walt: Now hold on for a second. In an old issue of West Coast Avengers, I believe, Mags and Tony faced off, and Tony had some trick up his sleeve involving reversing the polarity of his armor or something silly like that, thus negating Magneto’s powers. Sure, Magneto will probably remember this and won’t be taken by surprise like he might have been the first time, but it still isn’t as clear cut as it might seem at first glance.
David: That sounds so comic book-y it is insane (and probably real). Good lord. I just did a quick Google search and they said they both appeared in the same issues of Avengers (#111 and #112) in a fight between 14 Avengers and Magneto, and apparently they didn’t directly interact. Probably because that would not turn out well for Iron Man.
I think realistically what Tony will do is be like “damn, they have Magneto. I need a new suit.” And then he makes one out of papier-mache or clay or something like that and it magically works without having any magnetic components whatsoever. I think we can both agree though that if it weren’t for comic book drama mechanics, this would be a pretty quick fight.
Walt: Well, yeah, but isn’t the reason we read things called Avengers vs X-Men for the comic book drama? I would put all my money on Tony winning this fight. Not only is he the underdog, just based on the reasons we’ve already mentioned, but what’s Magneto’s biggest flaw? Well, besides his racism/speciesism? His pride. I can totally see him coming into this fight with, as you said, a “haHA!” and a squeeze of his fist, only to find out that this isn’t going to be quite as easy as he thinks. Sure, it’s the same thing that happened years ago, but has Marvel ever really shied away from retelling the same stories?
David: True story. Okay, my vote is on Tony winning, but for BS comic reasons. We’re in agreement here.
Black Widow vs. Psylocke
David: Black Widow vs. Psylocke. Russian vs. British (by way of Madripoor or wherever her newer body is from). Cold, calculating assassin (who loves men with robot arms) vs. introverted badass who was recently somewhat jilted by her amnesiac winged lover. Who will win? Why are these two fighting? Will Marvel pass up the opportunity to have them conveniently mince each others clothing?
Walt: This is where things get weird (but it’s hardly the weirdest). I have to wonder, why on earth did Marvel pair these two together? Because… they’re both rather sexualized female characters? That’s about all I can think of. My dislike of Psylocke aside, I don’t really see how Natasha can come out on top here, unless she gets the drop on Psylocke.
Come to think about it, that would be a pretty cool setup for an issue. Psylocke is actually fighting someone else, while Widow is trying to get in the perfect shot or something similar. A very indirect “versus” story, until the very end. But I digress.
David: Yeah, if they had Brubaker or something write this one with some sweet Michael Lark art, where the whole issue is Black Widow getting herself into position to take out Psylocke, that would be badass.
But with that said, how does one get the drop on someone who is telepathic? Based on previous use of that business, it basically acts as a mild Spider Sense. You hit the nail on the head though. This is really just a battle between hot, fanboy draws. And a kind of silly/weird one at that.
Walt: Yeah, I suppose it depends on how each writer interprets Betsy’s ability. It could be that she’s extremely focused on one task at hand and isn’t fully aware of her surroundings. I find that unlikely, though. I’m going to give this one to Psylocke, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Natasha wins simply on the underdog factor. Either way, it’s going to make some comic fans… uncomfortably happy.
David: Psylocke is going to win, and I’m uncomfortable about their happy already. 1-1 AvX.
Storm vs. Thor
David: I’m sorry but no. As much as you know they are going to make Storm win because she is a super underdog…just no. This is also the first X-Men who is also an Avenger, so that should be interesting.
Walt: Come on, it can’t be hard to beat someone who’s so dead he stopped ever existing!
Seriously, though, I’m not sure if it’s as unbalanced as you think. I’ve been slowly rereading Claremont’s original Uncanny run, and man, Storm has some pretty crazy moments of going over-the-top in terms of power. Enough to topple a god? Well, probably not, but who knows, Thor might be weakened upon his return to the world of the living.
David: Yeah, I know. Storm is basically a borderline god in her own right. I’ve read Claremont’s business, and even recently they’ve been really pushing her power set lately even. But to me, they both can do the weather thing (what’s up hurricanes and lightning storms), but Thor has the added bonus of being…you know…a god with god-like strength as well as a huge hammer that he likes to throw at faces.
By the way, this whole deal reminds me of this one West Coast Avengers and Avengers crossover. They totally pulled fast ones all the time on who wins against who. That said, I feel like Thor has to win this. He’s part of the Avengers trinity and Storm is kind of a half Thor in a lot of ways. Can you think of any history between the two? I can’t really. This just seems like they are united by similar aspects of power sets.
Walt: Yeah, that’s why I would give this one to Thor as well. Even if their weather powers are on equal level, I’m not sure how well Storm can take a hammer blow to the face.
I don’t think they have any in-continuity history. I do remember hearing something about them being quasi-romantically involved in Marvel’s Marvel Adventures line. I think in this context, this will be one of the fights where there’s a lot of mutual respect — especially in terms of Thor admiring Storm — and it should make the battle a bit more interesting.
Spider-Man vs. Iceman
David: These two are actually long-time friends/allies/whatever. Iceman was one of Spider-Man’s Amazing Friends as well as one of his former classmates at Empire State University, so they have a lot of history. Not only that, but the two of them are pretty similar types. Loquacious, light-hearted and always bantering no matter the situation. I think this fight would be a lot more tentative than even the rest.
That said, Bobby would mop the floor with Peter. A) The guy is an Omega mutant, B) he’s started sorting out his powers in really new ways (see: Wolverine and the X-Men), C) Bobby is a straight gangster (love the guy). I think, odds are, Spider-Man will win because he’s more popular (likely in a “oh man, I’m a scientist too. I have this magical fluid that makes Bobby turn into a normal guy!” sort of way). But my money is still on Iceman. What about you?
Walt: It’s no contest. Iceman all the way. Iceman is pretty much the most powerful non-telepathic/telekinetic mutant there is, and, as you mentioned, he’s slowly coming to terms with that. They’re friends. They’re going to hold back and want to talk it out a bit. But here’s the thing: Pete doesn’t necessarily know that Bobby is at the level it is. Sure, Bobby might be holding back, too, but Pete will be holding back as if he was just fighting Bobby when he was just tossing snowballs. I think Spidey is going to be a bit overconfident, and that’s going to be his downfall.
David: Agreed. Iceman with a flawless victory. That said, I think there is a 16% chance they end up riding Bobby’s ice pathway around the New York skyline for a bit instead. So romantic.
Walt: No chance. Johnny Storm is back. I’d agree with you if he was still “dead,” but let’s be honest, Bobby would just be a rebound.
Anyway, we’re getting into some weird Tumblr stuff and I don’t like it.
David: Yeah, let’s not go total fanfic here.
Ms. Marvel vs. Rogue
Walt: Anyone with a passing knowledge of X-Men history should be familiar with this little rivalry. In fact, I would say this is the most “obvious” one on the list. Rogue entirely absorbed Carol’s powers the first time they encountered each other (in print, at least), and there’s some bad blood between them.
…at least, there was. You’re more of an X-Men fan than I am, so you probably know better, but hasn’t this plot thread already been fully resolved? Sure, there’s still probably some bad blood between them, but this isn’t really anything new.
David: To my knowledge, or at least my memory, they have no beef any more. Obviously there may be some residual beef between the two of them (mostly on Ms. Marvel’s side, and by mostly I mean entirely), I think they buried the hatchet. Plus, I don’t think Rogue even has Ms. Marvel’s powers any more. Or can she? Rogue’s history is weird too. I think in her current state she can access anyone’s powers she touched previously, so…yeah. That is a thing she can do. Weird.
Definitely the most obvious one, and we know why it’s here. There is history here, but it could easily be classified as the “ancient” variety. Who do you think has the advantage?
Walt: If Rogue’s powers are at the level you’ve mentioned, then I’m going to have to go with her. Already, you have Ms. Marvel’s powers, which she’s about as experienced with, plus whatever the hell she wants. I mean, I’m sure there’s some kind of restriction to how many powers she can channel, for how long, and so on and so forth, but so long as she hits quickly and hard, I don’t see this going any other way.
Plus… well, let’s be honest. Ms. Marvel’s boring (sorry Matt). Just going off of recent niche popularity, Mike Carey’s Legacy run just wrapped up, leaving Rogue as one of the most well-developed X-Men characters around. Ms. Marvel… well, she’s always just kind of there, in my opinion.
David: Bam! Wiki’d!
“Rogue’s touch now simply steals the memories and abilities of individuals she comes in direct skin-to-skin contact with. The longer the contact, the longer Rogue retains the absorbed information. Although she can now control her powers at her will, she can still make her touch lethal if she activates it as her will to make it lethal on her enemies, and make her touch not lethal on her friends.”
Continued belowSo there that is. I agree with you though. Ms. Marvel is about as blah as blah comes. I read Ms. Marvel. The most interesting thing about that book were the supporting characters. I’m all over Rogue for this one, but you know, there might be a revenge factor.
Beast vs. Luke Cage
David: So I guess Beast is on the side of the X-Men. That’s a little surprising, but at the same time, Beast has always been hardcore on keeping mutantkind going so it isn’t really.
That said, a dude with super strength and unbreakable skin vs. a guy that is agile, hairy and has claws (and a big brain). Unless Beast develops some magic sci-fi gear, this probably ain’t happening for Beast. To my knowledge though, the two of these guys have very limited history. It’s a really weird pairing.
Walt: Yeah, this is a really bizarre one. I have literally zero recollection of these two interacting, except maybe appearing in one of those big group shots. And then, who cares, everybody appears in those shots, even characters that are supposed to be dead. With this one, I’m less interested in who will win and more why they’re fighting. If they can actually come up with a sensible reason, I’ll be impressed. If they just go with “Well… it’s Avengers versus X-Men, and one’s an Avenger and the other’s an X-Men” I’ll just sigh with disappointment once again, especially since Beast straddles the line.
David: Yeah. This might be the most random of the lot. I guess they both have kind of bifurcated ties. Cage has the Thunderbolts deal (although that is tied to Avengers kind of) and Beast has the X-Men/Avengers divide, obviously. Besides that, it’s like they just threw two names together who are kind of opposites – one is science, one is pure physicality – and were hoping that magic happens. I find little magic in this match-up. I will say Cage will win, but I will say that readers will join Beast as the loser.
Walt: I disagree. I think Beast will whip up some science shenanigans and turn the tables on Luke. Cage will probably have the upper hand for the majority of the fight, but at the last minute Beast will pull out some fancy gizmo that allows him to come out on top. Maybe the living espresso he mentioned in the recent Wolverine and the X-Men? Could be.
David: That’s the only way he’s going to win. You know comic writers love it when the smart guy beats the strong guy. Love it. That said, we’ll disagree here because it’s good to disagree. Especially when it comes to superhero fights.
Hulk vs. Emma Frost
Walt: This is getting weird. I mean, I guess it’s classic brain versus brawn, but… what? Isn’t the Hulk off doing his whole “Kill Banner” thing, separate from the Avengers entirely? Hasn’t he been proven to be immune to psychic attack? And, for the love of God, what happened to the beard?
David: I know. This whole thing is…just…what the hell. Congrats Emma Frost. You can turn into diamond. Now you are a bunch of significantly smaller diamonds. Obviously a lot can change for Hulk really fast, but this whole deal is…I don’t know. What is the point of this fight?! They don’t have any shared history. They don’t have any real connection through tangible fanboy ways. They basically are just opposites. Really, their biggest commonality is the frequency of wearing ill-fitting clothing.
Walt: It’s not that Emma’s diamond form is completely impregnable. She just had her arm cut off in an earlier issue of Uncanny! She is going to burst into a billion pieces. I love Emma. I really do. She’s easily my favorite female X-Men character — because of her personality, dammit — but this is not going to go well for her, especially now that there’s no Bruce Banner side to reason with. If she somehow wins this, the odds of the reasoning being completely pants-on-head stupid are extremely, extremely high.
Continued belowDavid: For sure. This is just stupid. Let’s just assume we lose, and no one wins. Fair enough?
Gambit vs. Spider-Woman
David: To be honest, this fight has no back story or any interesting connection really. That said, I find this fight to actually be interesting especially in the specter of the ridiculous Hulk vs. Emma fight. Pretty even match-up really, with similar skill sets and a lot of really interesting directions this could turn. Plus, there is about a 50/50 chance that Remy just outright hits on Jessica, right?
Walt: Yeah, this is one of those ones where, while random, is at least slightly interesting. While there’s the whole matter of energy projection, agility, and all that which they share, I’d totally be willing to read a story where it’s just the two of them trying to out-seduce each other. Spider-Woman has her pheromones, and Gambit… well, he’s Gambit!
David: Not going to lie. I’m fully expecting this issue to be a seduction fest. Or maybe not. Who knows. It really seems like this match-up was set up entirely for that reason though. The pheromones plus Gambit’s need to constantly be looking for his next “mon chere.” That said, I’m going totally homer on this. I think it’s Gambit all of the way on this one, even though I think he might not be able to get ruthless enough to beat her while Jessica would. I would be interested in this one for sure. But it better have a good creative team!
Walt: Right. More so than the others, this one really depends on its creative team. Anyone could write the Ms. Marvel versus Rogue one, as they have the benefit of their long history to help them make it interesting. In this case, though, it will take a good team to make this encounter particularly appealing, but if they manage to pull it off it will likely be a blast. I would put them on even footing, due to their pretty well matched power sets, but I’ll say one thing: If Bendis writes it, you just know Jessica is going to win. It’s the hair.
David: So true. This one doesn’t have either side being the underdog really. It’s pretty even, which is nice after the messes that were some of the previous fights we talked about.
So who do you pick to win?
Walt: I think I’ll actually side with the hypothetical Bendis opinion and give this one to Spider-Woman. Her power set, while evenly matched with Gambit’s, is a bit more varied, and I think that will be enough to give her the edge in what would otherwise be a close match.
The Thing vs. Juggolossus
David: You called this one! You knew this fight was coming!
So basically, this fight is two big time strong guys and straight fighters going at each other in a way that will likely end with a lot of property damage. I don’t think they have any history really (unless Yancy Street is secretly in Russia), but at the same time, these are two guys who don’t have a problem getting up for a fight, especially now that Piotr is Juggo’d out. What’s your take on it? My take is the recently amplified Piotr will have more to fight for, thus making him have a little bit of an edge.
Walt: I’m not even going to dance around it. Piotr has this in the bag, now that he has full-blown Juggernaut powers. I could see this being a very even if he was just good ol’ Colossus, but the Juggernaut is just too much. The only thing I could see being a hindrance to Piotr is his relative freshness to his powers. If Thing does end up winning, it will be because of this; maybe Juggolossus will be holding back in order to protect those in the surrounding area. My money’s on the Russkie, though.
David: Agreed. The Thing might have some editorial pull behind him because he’s a nice guy and more popular than the current form of Piotr, but man, I just don’t see how the Russian badass that is Juggolossus not winning. Speaking of, do you think Piotr will ever get a metal wig? The baldness throws me off.
Continued belowWalt: Seriously, it just looks weird. Not sure why being unstoppable means you have to be bald, though maybe it helps him be more aerodynamic? Still, if this was a contest over who looked the best without hair, it would definitely go to Ben. At least with the crags of his rock body, his head at least has some texture.
I swear, we should write these issues. We’re waiting for your call, Marvel.
Daredevil vs. Archangel
Walt: Okay, now this is getting really stupid. I’m a huge Daredevil fan, and yet I would never, ever, ever give this to Matt. Ever. I can barely even think about a reason for pairing these two up, except maybe because of Matt’s Catholicism. And isn’t Warren unable to become Archangel now? Granted, I haven’t read much of Uncanny X-Force, but that’s what I got from the most recent Wolverine and the X-Men.
David: First off, shame on you for not reading Uncanny X-Force.
Second off, yeah, he’s basically just Angel now, which I find to be the most confusing aspect of the fight. To me, the reason for pairing is definitely the religious aspect. That said, this fight goes full retard. And you know you should never go full retard. Did you see the image teasing this? Talk about death from above. This is not going to turn out well for Daredevil. Brandon and I discussed last night that maybe Angel will feel bad for Matt and resurrect Karen Page or something. Yeah, this issue could get weird if they wanted it to. Let’s hope it gets weird.
Walt: This is the one that makes me think that not all of these fights are actually going to happen, and that they’ve just thrown together an Avenger and an X-Men for a cool little promo picture. Even if you told me that Mark Waid and Rick Remender were co-writing this one, there is no way I would believe that this could be anything but either stupid or bizarre, though I suppose if you switched universes you could say the same thing about Batman versus Superman.
David: Yeah, exactly. They’re probably just cool match-ups that theoretically could happen. Although to me, this fight just isn’t that cool. It’s just kind of silly. You can tell when Marvel is scraping the bottom of the barrel because all it makes us do is become incredulous at what they are coming up with.
One thing that kind of bothers me about the art piece that shows the match-up is that it appears Archangel is jumping at him. That’s the way his legs look at least. These pieces, at least most of them, feel really rushed and not very thought out. Like the editors had a checklist that had two names on them (in this case, Archangel and Daredevil) and all they had to do was check off that they were present. Sigh…
Walt: Hey, he can’t fly all the time. That gets tiring. Or, maybe — just maybe — it’s some Archangel cosplayer. That would answer a few questions. It explains why he’s Archangel, not just plain Warren Worthington (as plain as a guy with wings can be, at least), why he’s jumping, rather than flying, and why this is anywhere close to a fair match. But I think that idea falls into the “this is just weird” category just a little bit.
Cyclops vs. Hawkeye
David: So Hawkeye is straight screwed, right? To me, it makes no sense that he has any chance.
Walt: This one is almost as silly as Matt versus Warren. Okay, there’s a thematic similarity, in terms of aiming and the like, but come on. Scott is the Captain America of the X-Men. Hawkeye is the… I dunno, the Sunspot of the Avengers. This is just another one of those “Okay, I see the thematic connection, but really these two don’t make any sense together.” Scott is going to wipe the floor with Clint. Unless, of course, the writer has some ridiculous “hit the bull’s eye” kind of plot, in which case I might very well might kill myself.
Continued belowDavid: Yeah, I agree. You kind of get the impression this is the sort of match up where writers want to highlight Hawkeye because of the Avengers movie so he will make a magic shot that will take out Cyke. It would be stupid, but definitely Marvel’s style of stupid.
That said, theoretically if he REALLY wanted to, Scott would turn Clint into dust in less time than this email took for me to type.
Walt: Yeah, this is another one of those instances where, if it came out evenly matched, it would only be because one character thought “Well, I don’t want to totally annihilate the guy.” I hate those kind of stories. I was quite excited for a Scott vs. Steve story, looking at them as strategists, but as is, this will either end up with Scott wholly trouncing Clint, as expected, or Scott purely jobbing to Clint in some stupid sense of promoting the Avengers movie, which would be ridiculous. Logically, I’ll give this to Scott, but it’s another instance of “Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if they gave it to Clint.” Just disappointed.
Captain America vs. Wolverine
Walt: Well, so much for the Schism, huh?
David: Yeah, I guess Wolverine is still all about saving mutantkind, and if Hope is in the mix then it fits his desire to save the younglings, but this was a pretty brief schism for sure. Still, this is a pretty interesting fight where I just find it hard for a winner even to come out of it. I mean, Steve is a super soldier and Wolverine has a healing factor. This fight will take ten years!
That said, they have history together and this fight could be a verrrry interesting one. Who do you think wins?
Walt: This is another one that I don’t think will actually happen. I mean, yes, they did say that people would change sides, but I just don’t see Wolverine being one of those people, especially with Jason Aaron co-writing. I doubt that he wants to kill Hope or anything like that, due to his whole weakness for kids, but we do know that Hope makes him uncomfortable. And he does have some bad blood with the Phoenix Force.
That being said, if the two do butt heads, it could be quite interesting. Really, they could make a whole miniseries of just these two beating each other up, and it would make sense. It wouldn’t be interesting, but it would makes sense. I think in the end, though, Wolverine’s healing factor would win out. Physically, they’re pretty evenly matched, but I think that gives Logan the slightest edge over Steve.
Then again, Logan doesn’t have the power of “I recently was in a pretty well-received movie” on his side.
David: I think this one convinced me that Marvel is basically pulling our chain and that we are effectively going to get zero of these fights. This issue could be awesome though. If Jason Aaron wrote it, he could do some wicked stuff, and he had a fun little arc on Weapon X with these two guys chilling. I’d rather have an issue of these two characters drinking beer and talking AvX out, wouldn’t you?
Walt: I’m in agreement on both counts, especially with the announcement that Kathryn Immonen is writing The Thing versus Namor, and not Colossus. Still, I’m sure some of them will happen, I just don’t see this being one of them. So let’s answer the important question. Who do you think would drink the other under the table, and would that take even longer than them actually wailing on each other?
David: Based on Uncanny X-Force #19 – which you didn’t read more than likely – I don’t think Wolverine can get drunk. Steve would take a while, but man, he’d go down eventually. And I think the drinking would be more long winded than the fight. The other question is this: what kind of beer do they drink? Molson for Wolverine, Budweiser for Cap?
Walt: I know that Logan can’t really get drunk — or, at least, not for long — but I think Steve is in the same boat. It would just go on until one of them went “This is stupid.” As for their choices, I think you’re on the mark for Logan. If not that, then Moosehead. Cap, though, I see drinking a PBR, for no reason other than its red, white, and blue labeling. USA! USA!
Continued belowDavid: I think Jason Aaron needs to write an issue where both of them are drinking steins of Everclear mixed with Barley Wine. Then we can see who gets wasted first. That might do it. Did you read the Weapon X comic from Aaron and Garney where Logan and Steve went drinking after Steve came back and they had Nightcrawler as their designated pilot for the Blackbird? Apparently they can get above the legal limit, or at least they are very worried about their appearance to society.
Walt: Ah man, that’s a great issue. However they duke it out, though, whether through fists or double-fisting, I see this ending the same way. It will take for goddamn ever, but in the end Wolverine will be the victor by just the smallest margin. Agreed?
David: Agreed. I’d like to think that a beer fueled Wolverine would be able to actually cut Cap’s shield in half with his claws, but I doubt we’ll ever see that. Sigh…
Walt: No way. Vibranium > adamantium. Comic book fact.
