David: It’s been a bit since we chatted Matt, but I have some news for you. You might want to sit down for this. So The Falcon is now Captain America. Thor is now a woman. Iron Man is now silver, a west coaster and wears a suit named after something I think that originates in Apple stores. Not only those three things, but Marvel’s going through some pretty significant changes to their Avengers line that may or may not involve Inhumans being on the team, and those changes are part of the Avengers NOW! initiative.
Was your mind blown? Did your brain crack open like Scott Pilgrim’s to reveal a little chick in there going “peep!”? How are you coping with this news?
Matthew: David, I paid for my whole seat, but it appears I’m only going to be using the edge today.
But for real, I remain largely unmoved. Sorry! I think that Marvel is touting this as a bold new era with radical decisions that will have grandiose ramifications, and I guess that might be true for a little while at least. I think that it’s great that Marvel has decided to run with this “haters gonna hate” attitude and is getting creatives who have stories to tell with these different iterations of iconic characters. I mean, my biggest complaint about the Captain America switcheroo is I still contest Ian made more sense story-wise, but I’m still totally interested to see what Remender can do with this story — and I think that’s what matters most.
I’ve seen many people say that this is pandering, and then the people that this would ostensibly being pandering to replying with, “Yeah, but so what?” That kind of sums up my feelings on the subject as a straight white male who has always had access to a dearth of straight white male heroes.
I will say this, though: as cool as it is to tout the new Thor and Captain America as bastions of Marvel’s diversity, I think it would’ve been more impressive to a) bring in a female/POC writer and/or b) just create brand new characters to exist within the Marvel U that won’t have to give up the mantle whenever a new movie roles around. But maybe that’s just me.
How about you?
“Superior Iron Man” I’ll probably pass on, as both Taylor and Cinar are creators I think are fine but not something I’m desperate to follow on anything.
So from a sheer business standpoint, before the shift I was buying one of these three titles. Now I’ll probably be buying two. Good on Marvel, I guess.
As for the pandering angle, honestly, I don’t really care too much about that. It does seem a little obvious that it’s Marvel trying to please the internet, but I’m not really a character hardened person. Bucky Cap was dope as shit. Why can’t FalCap be the same? I’ve honestly never been a big Thor fan outside of Aaron’s work, so why wouldn’t this new Thor be good with Aaron writing?
The saddest thing is this is certainly all temporary. Wolverine’s not going to be dead for long. Thor won’t forever be a woman. FalCap is but prelude to “The Return of Captain America!” Tony Stark will probably get red on him again at some point. I don’t remember who said it, but someone once said comics are perpetually stuck in the second act. This is just another temporary second act.
Let’s talk about the Avengers Now! branding, which I think is the most interesting part to be honest. Why do you think Marvel’s obsessed with this “Now!” thing? They’re really sticking to their guns on that one it seems.
Continued belowMatthew: I do want to say at this point that I do not approve of David not being a Thor fan outside of Aaron’s work, just for the record. Thor is the best!
As for the “now” thing, I mean, I’m going to go with the cynical/obvious route on this one and say that it’s a bit of a play on new, isn’t it? As in New 52, to which Marvel’s response was Marvel “NOW”? Because this was always my assumption — Marvel has been playing up the not-so-friendly rivalry of their distinguished competition, and as long as DC is New, Marvel is Now.
David: I mean, there is some good stuff outside of Aaron’s work, but I just remember the 90’s stuff being a big ol’ pile of garbage.
And you’re right. It probably is a play on “new”, but – and I know the answer to this – does that do anything for you at all? I’m not sure who this big branding stuff is aimed at really, especially if it’s really aimed as crossfire at DC. It’s funny how Marvel and DC focus so much on each other when they should be focusing on getting new readers and lapsed readers, not each other’s ones. I just don’t see this as a successful marketing decision, even though they did it in highly visible ways.
But, well, it’s not aimed at me, is it? Because — and I’m not saying this to denigrate myself or my lifetime of reading comics or my role at this site or anything of that sort — but Marvel doesn’t care about me as a reader. They “have me” already, so I’ve outlived my usefulness as long as I keep buying comics. The changes to Thor, Iron Man and Cap are not “aimed” at me or anything like that, though I’ll read them all and see how it goes. Marvel is interested in the NOW! of it all, in the fabled “new reader” that will come and save the day with magical sales through the roof and consistency in their pulls. I’m not that.
So this branding isn’t for me — it’s for the person who goes to see… I dunno, how about Chris Pratt and Friends In Space: The Movie and is looking for a place to start. “Hey,” this person says. “I liked this film. And this comic looks like a good place to start because it is NOW!, which is what I am looking for. I will buy “The Legendary Chris Pratt”… *puts on sunglasses* now.”
I’m being flippant a bit, but I do have to kind of take myself out of it. I know it’s not for me, and I’m honestly OK with that. I’ll admit that I used to be a bit more perturbed about the blatant disrespect that Marvel (and DC, to be fair) shows its core readership and I’ve probably written about my frustrations on the site, but I’ve gotten over that. As long as the comic is good, I’m good!
David: Yeah, I see what you’re saying, but at the same time, they shouldn’t focus on us. They already have us, and like with any business oriented around the sales of a product, you’re advertising to the people who don’t already buy it, not brand loyal people. I just think this doesn’t really work. It’s easy to be a couch analyst and say that without offering anything as a real solution, but I know what doesn’t: announcing things on the Colbert Report and the View. It’s fun, sure, but I doubt it dramatically impacts sales at all.
Continued belowYou’ll probably agree with me on this, but I don’t understand why Marvel and DC doesn’t do anything they can to take plays out of the Image playbook. Many of the comics in this day and age that have found real crossover success come from them, most notably “The Walking Dead” and “Saga.” In terms of books they could learn from, it’s mostly “Saga”, as the formula of mass media versions of your comic creating new readers or interest from existing ones is not apparently working for Marvel. But “Saga” has become a crossover hit by simply being the best comic it can possibly be, and readers have strongly responded to that. You see that on other Image books like “Black Science” or “Sex Criminals” as well, and they’re obviously fulfilling something that other publishers aren’t giving readers.
It’s idealistic to go with the “Field of Dreams” approach of “if you build it, they will come”, but shit, it’s way better than being flashily yelling at no one in particular. Am I crazy? What do you think Marvel should do?
Granted, it’s easy to look at a really bad superhero comic and say “how did this get made?” There are plenty of books that I don’t like, whether at Marvel or DC or even Image, that just don’t appeal to me. But someone higher up somewhere did inherently look at it and say, “Yeah, this is it.” That Marvel adheres to additional corporate overlords, a mouse, and a relentless fanbase probably doesn’t help them — but, hey, like “Saga,” they did win an Eisner for their comic “Hawkeye” this year.
As for what they could do, I guess the simple solution would be to stop rushing. That to me seems to biggest thing about Marvel right now: the NOW!-ness of it all and the implication that things need to stay relevant to the second; someone at Marvel apparently saw Ferris Beuller and misunderstood the “Life moves pretty fast” quote. But I think the biggest flaw Marvel has right now is trying so hard to keep their comics at the forefront of … of something, I don’t even know what. But we’re moving from event to event, there are a zillion fill-in artists on their books (even if they’re good fill-in artists), you’ve got the biggest name creators of yesteryear moving away from writing superhero comics and packing up to go to Image…
“Hawkeye” is the only book that I think I can personally look at and say that Marvel understands a little bit of what is best for their books. Does the lateness create apathy and frustration in readers? Yes. Absolutely. But does the fact that they’ve allowed the book to come out at its own schedule, when its ready, have an obvious effect on the quality? Double yes. If Marvel treated more of their books like “Hawkeye,” I think we’d be better off.
David: I think “Hawkeye” is a tough example, as it tilts the meter too far in the other direction, as being months late isn’t good either. But you’re right, Marvel is certainly hustling out the best product they can, and for the most part, they’re succeeding. It’s just hard to not feel that Marvel’s missing the mark on these branding endeavors, and that maybe part of the reason they are having a hard time bringing in new readers is that their comics are in perpetual and complete change. Right now Thor is a guy, and in a few months he will be a she, and probably a year and a half she’ll be a he again. Try explaining that to a fan of the movies with assurances that, “no, really, this is good and worthwhile.” It’s a little hard to do that.
I’ve suggested this before, but I still feel like comics can learn from TV and its ability to support stories of all varieties in both a long-form serialized sense and within seasons themselves. You look at books that have really garnered attention outside of the comics media and typical comic audiences at Marvel, and it’s books like “Hawkeye” and “Young Avengers”, books which aren’t in a hurry and have defined, concise arcs that aren’t about over the top change but about building characters out. That’s what TV does. It’s not like every episode of “Breaking Bad” was Walter White offing competition. It was about finding out who Walter and Jesse really were, while intermittently offing competition!
It’s not about always making a splash. It’s not always about “NOW!” Sometimes less is more, especially in an industry where the types of marketing moves that are often made are the very same things that keep potential new readers out.
