David: We’re doing something a little different this week in MC2, as Matt and I are going to let you get to know us a bit better as readers by sharing exactly what we’re each reading, and why we read what we do, before getting into a discussion. We thought this would be a good way to provide insight into us, but also to open up the discussion of where Marvel is at, and how they’re succeeding with different cross-sections of readers. Their line is more sprawling and disparate than ever, and maybe, just maybe, we’ll be able to approximate some insight into how they’re doing as a publisher from this. Please, o fine readers, share your lists in the comments as well.
So Matt, as I just told the readers above, we’re going to be breaking down what we’re currently reading amongst all Marvel titles – no Icon, of course, but yes to Ultimate universe – and sharing why those books specifically make the cut, and others in fact do not. So kick us off. What makes your list, and why?
Matthew: Alright, well, this is pretty good timing as I actually just went through my pull list this weekend and chopped it down, removed titles and whatnot — not that you’ll notice, I guess, because it’s still pretty massive, but, uh, well here goes nothing:
– All-New Invaders
– All-New Ultimates
– All-New X-Factor
– All-New X-Men
– Amazing Spider-Man
– Avengers
– Avengers Undercover
– Captain America (soon to be All-New Captain America)
– Captain Marvel
– Daredevil
– Elektra
– Fantastic Four
– Guardians of the Galaxy
– Hawkeye
– Iron Fist: The Living Weapon
– Loki: Agent of Asgard
– Miles Morales: The Ultimate Spider-Man
– Miracleman
– Ms. Marvel
– New Avengers
– Nova
– Rocket Raccoon
– Secret Avengers
– She-Hulk
– Silver Surfer
– Superior Foes of Spider-Man
– Thor, God of Thunder (soon to be just Thor)
– Uncanny Avengers
– Uncanny X-Men
– Wolverine and the X-Men
So there you have it — 32 titles. I was reading a bit more, like Cyclops for example (which I may come back to, but I initially added it because I wanted to read it because it was Rucka and Dauterman for more than five issues, you know?), and I also follow a number of titles in trade like Deadpool and Mighty Avengers, and am interested in following along with Inhuman, Legendary Star-Lord and Spider-Man 2099 when we get to the trade-ready level.
That said, a few of these are me being a franchise player, and I won’t back away from that. Fantastic Four, Spider-Man and Daredevil, for example, are all books that I would proooobbbably buy regardless of creator, unless it was someone doing something that REALLY turned me off, like with how all the books I used to love at DC ended up getting cut out of my pull. But I’d be generally willing to give just about anyone the benefit of the doubt on books like that, though; no shame there.
And finally, you have books that break the mold like Secret Avengers or Rocket Raccoon or Hawkeye, and those are the books that make it to the top of my reading pile when they come out. I know we’ve talked about things like indie-ization or Image-ification of Big Two comics, but for me, if it’s clear that talented creators are being let out out of the editorial cages and being given carte blanche to just have fun with superhero comics, to do what they like, then I’m all in. Maybe it’ll be from an unexpected team (Charles Soule and Javier Pulido on She-Hulk) or it’ll be an obviously winning pairing (Nick Spencer and Steve Lieber on Superior Foes of Spider-Man), but there are a lot of books at Marvel that are clearly being allowed to just run wild… even if that may reach a bursting point to the bubble at ‘Time Runs Out’ in April/May. I dunno.
Continued belowI assume you have comments now, starting with something like “you are crazy” or “what is wrong with you” or “32 books from Marvel alone, you are crazy and also what is wrong with you?” Whattaya got for me, David?
David: Nah man, we’re totally on the same wavelength. And by that, I mean YOU ARE CRAZY. I may not even by 32 comics a month, let alone 32 from Marvel! Here’s my list, for comparison’s sake:
– Avengers Undercover
– Hawkeye
– Miles Morales: The Ultimate Spider-Man
– Ms. Marvel
– She-Hulk
– Superior Foes of Spider-Man
– Thor: God of Thunder
I bought the first issue of almost every book on your list, but dropped almost all of them for one reason or another – you just buy way more than me, being one – but the seven I’m left with are just the ones I enjoy the most. They’re the books that I find myself connecting with, and I think the strange unifying factor is that they’re all either a) books starring new/newer characters without any legitimately weighty continuity or b) books that aren’t really caring about existing continuity and doing their own things. They’re also all crafted by really, really good writers and artists, but it is interesting that my list is filled with books that aren’t likely deemed “important” by Marvel heads out there. I don’t really know if that’s the reason or just a random coincidence. Interestingly, the only other Marvel book I was reading was “Original Sin”, an event comic, but that’s over so it doesn’t count!
Now’s your time to fire back at me. Am I a fraud for only reading this few? Are you going to have to replace me because of my puny list?
Matthew: Yeah, we might need to get someone else on this colum who knows a bit more of what they’re talking about! Seven books? What is this, grade school? What do you use to pay for your comics, your weekly allowance from doing chores???
I kid, of course. I mean, you have to buy what you like, and if you only like seven books then that’s that. I’m a weirdo who buys way too much; I actually have just sort of started catching up with all my books (as you can guess, my weekly pulls are quite grandiose; usually 20-30 a week). But, I think it also comes down to the type of people that we are, not just the readers — I’m okay with buying a book that doesn’t wow or connect with me at first if I think that in, say, five or six issues it’ll hit that place. Looking at my list, stuff like Silver Surfer or Uncanny Avengers or Guardians of the Galaxy, these were all books that I wanted to give the benefit of the doubt and stayed with for a bit, and it’s paid off for me… but obviously you don’t have the patience for that kind of stuff.
But, one thing that I think is worth noting in your case is that you have Marvel Unlimited, right? So for things that are “important” or whatever, you could always come back to it and catch up if you really wanted to. You’re a digital boy, whereas I’m not.
David: Yeah, I do actually have Marvel Unlimited, and for some books – like “Daredevil”, for example – I read those as the “new” books drop on there. I’m actually going to catch up on “Guardians” and “Uncanny Avengers” as well, and it’s a nice tool for sampling books and deciding whether or not you want to jump on entirely. If only Marvel’s trade situation was better, then I’d get caught up entirely, but that’s another story for a different time. Marvel Unlimited, for those who have not tried it out, is actually super rad, and an incredible option for those spending on a budget and also not overly caring about reading books as they are released.
Continued belowBack on point though, generally speaking, how would you say Marvel is faring – comic quality wise, not in terms of its often odd marketing choices – right Now? And yes, I intentionally capitalized now.
Matthew: Well, I alluded to this earlier, but it can be a bit hot and cold.
That said, there are a lot of missteps along the way, which leave me cold at times. Wolverine and the X-Men is a great example. That book was launched as Jason Latour and Mahmud Asrar, which is a great team and, for the first couple issues, was a great team. But Asrar was pulled from the book to go to All-New X-Men, and that meant that as the book wrapped its first arc with issue #6, to keep the book on time Marvel had five artists on the book: Mahmud Asrar, as well as Pepe Larraz, David Messina, Massimiliano Veltri and Marc Deering, all colored by Israel Silva. That’s the definition of a hot mess on a book that had an incredibly promising start! (I think the book righted the ship with issue #8, but even that had three artists.)
There are cases where the previously described situation is enough for me to hop ship and call it a day, and I’ve certainly done that a lot more recently. Like I said, if we’d had this conversation before Sunday, my pull list would’ve been a bit longer (I actually can’t remember everything I dropped, but I remember Cyclops and Ghost Rider being on the list). And while this isn’t the norm at Marvel, they do tend to play fast and loose with their artistic teams, frequently shifting artists over to “bigger” or “better” books which result in new artistic teams that don’t fit the same vibe as the previous ones, such as the masssssssive departure felt on Avengers Undercover after Kev Walker left. This bums me out about Marvel, and always will.
Aside from that, I think any creator is allowed a mulligan or two, I think. Hickman’s Avengers/New Avengers post-Infinity/pre-Original Sin meandered quite a bit, but that’s the kind of book where you have to know you’re in it to the end or you’re not really in it at all; that’s the kind of writer he is.
So to go back to your question, quality-wise I think Marvel is in a good place. They’ve got great writers, they’ve got some of comics’ hottest artists doing covers and interiors, and as long as folks like Matt Wilson and Jordie Bellaire are coloring their books then we’re in a good space. But the random non-solicited artistic shifts are grating and can be detrimental to stories.
Those shifts can undermine a lot of great work, and it’s unfortunate it happens. A great example of the massive shift in art is on Undercover, like you mentioned. I love Kev Walker. I love Timothy Green II. The two of them in a row feels VERY disjointed, and does that book no favors.
Anyways, I think they’re in a good place, but I do have to say where both the Avengers and X-Men books at are not for me. It used to be difficult to get me to not buy an X-Men or Wolverine book, but I’m buying exactly zero books from that line right now. I’m very squarely in their target demographic – existing reader with an affinity for the characters/line – yet it’s not working for me.
Avengers/New Avengers is a weird situation because I love Hickman both on previous Marvel work and on his creator-owned work, yet his work on the flagship just left me cold. I have to wonder if those books are a little too weird and insular for flagships, as you’d think they’d want the most generally pleasing work on that book, but I’d say that’s clearly a book that people love or hate, and sometimes at the same time. I mean, even you’re hot and cold on it.
I’m going to throw something out at you, and I’m not trying to push the topic in this direction entirely, but it’s worth asking: do you feel like there’s been a bit of a flip flop between Marvel and DC recently, with Marvel generating a mix of apathy and controversy while DC’s been currying a lot of reader love with recent decisions? It’s all cyclical, but it feels like on the heels of Mark Doyle’s master plan coming together and Secret Six returning combined with Milo Manara’s Spider-Woman cover that DC’s turned the tables a bit.
Matthew: In regards to Avengers/New Avengers, I’ll at least throw down that, again, Hickman and Marvel both are very clearly assuming that anyone who is reading that book understands that it won’t really get to the place where it is universally celebrated/satisfying for just about another year. I mean, that’s literally it; there are some HUGE pay-offs in the short term right now (Original Sin’s tie-ins, for example), but for the most part it’s the type of long con that would make James Ford proud.
In terms of your question, I mean, I don’t really know. I don’t think I can answer that, because as much excitement as there is towards these upcoming changes, I’m still largely apathetic. I think things sound neat on paper, but if Batgirl and Secret Six doesn’t blow doors down with the first issue I don’t think I’ll stick around. Heck, I’ll be honest and say that I’m so generally lethargic towards DC’s line these days that I may not even bother with the full issue if the preview doesn’t hook me in! Whereas, if something at Marvel…let’s say, Spider-Woman #1 written by Dennis Hopeless and illustrated Greg Land doesn’t instantly wow me, I’ll still give Hopeless the benefit of the doubt for another couple issues.
So, I mean, that’s very much on me. I’d love for DC to reclaim some of their former glory, but I’ve been pushed off that playground pretty hard. It’s going to take more than a sign reading “Coming Soon: Something You Might Really Love!” to get me to join you on the hype train.
David: Fair enough entirely. I don’t blame you for that, but I thought it was interesting no less.
The last question I’ll ask is something you referenced already, and that’s the new wave that’s coming. Do you foresee the new books that are coming changing things at all for your perspective on the overall quality of their line? Most of them are just variations of the existing formula, after all, but I know you love Greg Land’s art a whole lot.
Matthew: Oh, yes. I am big fan. Biggest fan. Only fan? No fan. Anyway!
When you say the new books, do you mean Thor and All-New Captain America and Superior Iron Man and that ilk? I mean, I’m passing on Superior Iron Man unless reviews come in that it’s the greatest book in the world, but with Thor and All-New Captain America, I don’t imagine I’ll really feel that much different. I am certainly intrigued for both, I’ll say that, But both those books are already pretty consistent and quality; I’m not sure the change in leads will really impact the quality of the book, especially when both previous leads are sticking around as main characters in the series.
Continued below
How about you? How are you feeling on what’s on the horizon?
David: I think I’ll try them all out besides Spider-Woman (and I did mean all the books, not just the Avengers NOW! ones). I have to admit, I’m less of a writer guy as I am an artist guy, and my love for Hopeless is offset by by enormous distaste for Land’s style. Some may like him, but I am not that person.
The rest of them have things that draw me in, like with Iron Man I at the very least dig Yildiray Cinar’s art quite a bit. I try most #1’s, but I also have a pretty quick hook. I have to admit, I like Rudy a bit less than you – he’s incredibly talented, but sometimes I feel like his art is trying a little too hard to be JH Williams III and not trying to tell the story smoothly or coherently – but that book does look like a lot of fun. Kot on a Bucky the Unseen book is super fascinating.
But I don’t know how much it will change my overall opinion. I think it’s going to come down to some books I like and others I don’t. I still appreciate their attempts at trying things a bit different, and it seems like at least one thing you can say about all five books is they should be good for new readers to try them out. That at the very least gets my approval.
