David: Matt, I’m not sure if you noticed over the Memorial Day weekend, but Marvel took the time while everyone was camping and having barbecues to casually drop the news that both Edgar Wright and Drew Goddard are out as the main creatives behind “Ant-Man” and “Daredevil” respectively. The comics world responded with shock, awe and snarky comments about how “surprising” it is that Marvel was being overly controlling with someone working for them creatively.
Tell me: what was your immediate reaction to both of those news stories, besides well-practiced apathy?
Matthew: Mainly well-practiced apathy! But I’ll admit that there was a bit of confusion. Edgar Wright leaving the Ant-Man film after literally years of working on it is the biggest shock, as I think Edgar Wright is a bigger selling point than Ant-Man, right? And that there isn’t already an Ant-Man in the Avengers (despite his and the Wasp’s pivotal parts played in the formation of said team), well, it kinda feels like what’s the point of Ant-Man without Edgar Wright? Not for nothing, but lets be honest: we’d see it more for Wright’s involvement than Hank Pym or Scott Lang’s.
Unless they let Joe Cornish to take over. I’d be fine with that.
The Drew Goddard thing, though, admittedly was not really anything of a shock. To my understanding, he’s deeply entrenched in putting together the Sinister Six stuff for Fox. I guess I just rationalized that one better.
How about you? What did you think?
David: Before I jump into my opinion, while I think that people like you or me or the entirety of Twitter were really excited about Edgar Wright, let’s not go overrating his box office draw. Here’s a fun thing for you: did you know if you combine the total domestic gross of all four movies that Wright has directed, they equal less than just the opening weekend of “Captain America: The Winter Soldier”? Marvel movies succeed at this point because they are Marvel movies. It’s pretty much a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point, and Wright or Cornish or whomever takes over will likely find huge success regardless, even if it is a relative oddball like “Ant-Man”, and I’d wager that all the people who are saying “I’m not even going to see it now!” will likely be there opening weekend anyways.
As for my opinion, I wasn’t really surprised by either move, to be honest. Wright is a visionary type director, and so far, Marvel has made it pretty clear that they want to have a certain level of control over their product. Those two ideas always made it seem like destiny that the two sides would spar, and while it’s disappointing, I was not surprised. Goddard, as you said, is a pretty busy dude over at Fox, so that ain’t no thing.
I do think it’s interesting that people are taking all of this as end times for Marvel, as if they hadn’t previously said “peace out” to Patty Jenkins on the second Thor movie, or that they hadn’t replaced Terrance Howard in a heartbeat when he wanted a little more $$$$. Marvel is looking at this as a business first and a creative endeavor second, and it has proven profitable to make interesting, well connected movies, and as long as that proves true, I think we’ll still get good stuff out of them. I think their biggest concern should be that good filmmakers may start talking about how it’s a negative experience – if it is in fact one – to work with them, but honestly, look how long it took to replace Goddard. It’s not like it’s hard to convince people to make a movie with them when that almost certainly means the highest visibility filmmaking of their career.
What are you thinking? Is it time for doom and gloom? Or is it much ado about nothing, as Joss Whedon might say as he gnaws through his cornetto?
Matthew: Well, I’d very much be in the much ado about nothing camp, and not just because right now I’m MUCH more looking forward more to a film adaptation of a Shakespeare play than, say, Guardians. Though that looks fun too. But more than anything, I guess I’m just sad for Wright while lamenting, well, it’ll probably work out.
Continued below(Granted, I may think the long-term prospects of superhero open-ended storytelling is not something that will be conducive to the film medium in the same way that TV shows eventually have to end, but that’s probably a different conversation altogether.)
I mean, look: I like Wright a lot. You’ll catch me watching the Cornetto Trilogy more often than you’ll catch me re-watching probably any of the Marvel films, and I think that speaks to his talent as a filmmaker. But Marvel has been very smart about their movie-side, and that’s led to the massive success that it is today. And Wright got Buster Keaton’d, and you feel for the guy if you’re a fan of his work, but while I would love to spend all day talking with you and lamenting about how the creatives we love get treated like shit, I feel like we do that enough in the comic industry as is. And in our smaller industry, it often hurts a lot more.
We already know that going into mainstream comic work comes with a price, one where you’ll have a fair share of creative freedom but ultimately have to answer to higher ups who have the ability to just say no. That’s the comic industry; every story you’ve ever heard of the film industry is by FAR worse. If your producer wants a giant robot spider in the movie, you’re going to end up with Will Smith fighting a giant spider in a Western, you know?
So it sucks for Wright. But, I’m sure Wright’s going to go and make a great film on his own, without Marvel’s help. That’s the thing about Wright: he’s a fantastic director, and if he’s not going to tell the story of Ant-Man, then I’m fine with that. On the same ground, Marvel has not yet put out a film that I haven’t wanted to own on Blu-ray and re-watch, and after months of promising me that SHIELD would be worth watching, well, SHIELD was worth watching. I’ll be there to see Ant-Man opening weekend, and I would imagine it would still be entertaining.
I still have no opinion about Goddard, though. I think he’ll be alright.
A brief one this week, but we’re interested in your thoughts: do you think this is the first domino in Marvel’s demise, or will it ultimately be something we forget about as we continue to enjoy their film universe? Share your thoughts in the comments and let’s keep this conversation going.
