This is hopefully the first of many roundtable discussions we’ll have, in which multiple of Multiversity’s writers will get together and discuss a single topic. Today, in honor of Mother’s Day, we have Walt, Gil and I talking about comic moms and eventually making the decision of who to put on the comic mom Mount Rushmore…or Mount Rushmom, Mount Rushmommore, etc. etc.
Check it out after the jump, and weigh in with your thoughts in the comments. Also, thanks to Mike Honig for the Mount Rushmom illustration. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.
David Harper: Happy Mother’s Day everyone! What better way to start than a roundtable talk about the mothers in the world of comics. There are all kinds of good ones and all kinds of bad ones…everyone has their preference. When you guys think moms in comics, who do you think of?
Gil Short: When it comes to comic moms, I always think of two. Sue Storm and Ma Kent. Sue Storm, even before she had Franklin and Valeria was a mom of sorts to the rest of the team. And Martha Kent is probably the most famous mom in comics today.
Walt Richardson: Even though she isn’t technically a mom, the best mother I can think of is Peter Parker’s Aunt May, particularly in the Ultimate Marvel Universe. She’s a nice enough lady in mainstream Marvel, but Ultimate Aunt May just seems much more realistic, in that she has her flaws but is still motivated by her love for her nephew.
Harper: I like that both of you guys start off with two of three characters that aren’t really moms…they’re surrogate moms. We have Sue Storm, who is obviously OG, legit as all get out. But then you have Ma Kent, surrogate mom for a child from another planet, and then Aunt May, the woman who raised Spider-Man but isn’t actually his mom. You wouldn’t want to know who I think of when I think comic moms. Or maybe you would, given the nature of this exercise.
Short: Aunt May is definitely a great mom.
On the flip side, I think a bad comic mom would be those that simply weren’t there. Mystique was a pretty terrible mom, and I’d say if your kid is a villain, you fucked up pretty bad.
Harper: That’s exactly who my mind went to: Mystique. On one hand, she manipulates Rogue like crazy. On the other hand, she was willing to kill a baby in Messiah Complex to save Rogue. Mother of the year?
Richardson: It’s been a while since I’ve been up to date on the whole Rogue/Mystique relationship, but from what I remember it seems like she’s trying to be a better mother, but not exactly “getting” it.
As to what you said about surrogate mothers, I find that oftentimes the best mother figures in fiction are surrogate. Another really off-the-wall example I was considering was Sue Dibney in the years of the JLI. Sure, she was never an actual mother, but the way she looked over the rather wacky group was almost maternal, as Gil said for Sue Storm pre-Franklin and Valeria.
Short: Another great comic mom would be Hippolyta. Granted I don’t know THAT much about the Wonder Woman Franchise, but she originally tried to protect her daughter Diana from the rigors of Man’s World, but then supported her when she did gain the title of Emissary to that world.
Harper: That’s the funny thing though, have you guys noticed that mothers are routinely used in villainous ways? For every Ma Kent, you have a Scarlet Witch going bonkers and inventing Vision babies and eradicating most of the mutants in the world AND you have Hippolyta being resurrected and destroying Washington DC and taking down Air Force One. If I didn’t actually have a mom, in some theoretical world, I would think they were pretty damn evil from reading comics.
Short: Yeah, I was just going to add that. Look at Ma Kent, who is one of the greatest moms ever, but then look at a Kryptonian mother in Ursa. Her and Zod’s kid was abused in the Phantom Zone, but at least Lois was able to portray a positive influence.
Richardson: Well, that whole betrayal of family and such is always a solid way to elicit emotion from the reader. I’m sure you get about the same awesome to psychotic ratio for dads in comics as well.
While we are talking about psychotic moms, how about that Talia Al’Ghul? Best mom ever, am I right?
Harper: Oh man, that’s a good one, and perfect timing with Batman and Robin’s most recent issue. She’s got to be a “Best Mom Ever” contender for that remote controlled spine stunt. What do you think his birthday parties were like when he was little? “Only one beating from a deadly assassin today son. I loathe you less on this special day.”
Short: My God, Talia. the latest issue of Batman should win her mother of the fucking year.
Richardson: I suppose you could say that evil mothers/fathers could reflect bad blood between the writer and their parent, but let’s take a look at Brian Michael Bendis: He’s responsible for the biggest mother-going-nuts instance in Marvel (the aforementioned Scarlet Witch), yet he also is responsible for the previously mentioned Ultimate Aunt May, as well as my next contender for mother of the year: Jessica Jones-Cage.
Short: Ultimate Aunt May is definitely awesome. And when a mom (actual or surrogate) isn’t around, it can be disastrous. Batman, anyone?
Harper: (In response to Walt) That’s possible, but I think you were definitely on track with the business about them being a tool to elicit emotion. Parents are used as plot devices as much as they are anything else in comics. I think that’s why the aforementioned Aunt May, especially in the latest volume of Bendis’ Ultimate Comics Spider-Man, is so damn awesome. She’s basically running a halfway house of wayward, superpowered urchins, and she does it in a loving and often hilarious way. I don’t think anyone that reads those comics isn’t like “damn, that’s the best mom ever.”
But I like how Jessica Jones is wearing the mother hat. It hasn’t changed her much, and her and Cage have become even more interesting of characters with the addition of their baby. Even if I still think it’s a Skrull.
Richardson: Exactly. I know some people were worried that making Jessica into a mother would be far too significant a change to a character that didn’t exactly appear like mother material, but I think that the gradual change in her character has been completely natural. I was completely with her turning tail on Luke and registering for the baby’s sake, because that’s what an actual mother would do.
Harper: That was a really good moment. I loved her walking to Avengers Tower (Starkville) and making her move to protect her baby. It was a powerful moment that was handled really well by Bendis.
I like where Gil went though. We’ve mentioned this, but there are a lot of characters out there who grew up without their actual mother. Batman did, Spider-Man did, Superman did, Rogue did, Hellboy did…I think you guys get it. So are comics telling us that you’re a better person without a mom and if your mom is around, she’s going to mess some shit up? This is a weird message they’re giving us.
Richardson: I wouldn’t say that. Superman and Spider-Man had their mother-figures, and it was never shown (to my knowledge) that having their mothers (or fathers) would have held them back in any way. As Gil said, though, Batman had no real mother figure for most of his life, and it certainly didn’t help him out. As for characters like Rogue who have deeply flawed mothers, I don’t think this is as much a reflection on mothers as it is in people in general: all sorts of people have all sorts of problems, and sometimes those people with problems end up being mothers.
Continued belowShort: Well, I think not having a mom AT ALL is a mixed bag. But Peter and Clark had great moms, even if they aren’t biological. As for Hellboy, well, his mom must be some sort of Demon. And unless that Demon is Anya from Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it’s probably for the best.
Harper: That’s probably true. I think having a demon for a mom would probably be a fairly big downer.
And I think you’re right too Walt, I think having the flawed mothers and all of the surrogate moms are both plot devices as well as accurate representations of just how the dice roll sometimes. There aren’t a lot of normal moms out there. When I try to think of good, wholesome, run-of-the-mill moms, I can’t really think of that many. One of my favorite recent examples is Invincible’s mom. Debbie Grayson is a damn good mom who is tough, caring, and isn’t just a plot device. Plus she’s been through some serious shit. Can you guys think of any other recent moms who fit the bill?
Richardson: I was actually just about to suggest Debbie. She was just an ordinary person thrust into an extraordinary situation while continuing to be as good a mother as she can.
Harper: Yeah, extraordinary barely handles her situation. She finds out her husband is actually part of an alien race that has designs on basically enslaving the Earth, who then beats the living shit out of their son on national television, who then flees to another planet of bug people and has another, half gnarly enslaving alien race, half bug person son with another woman. That son comes back with her real son and becomes her surrogate son, yet she loves him all the same. Really, I’d say she’s probably my favorite mom in comics day. How she can even make it through a day without crying or drinking herself into oblivion, I have no idea (although she did that for a while).
Short: Well, reading the Manhunter back-ups, Kate Spencer has been through Hell too. Which begs the question of how being a mom relates to being a superhero.
Harper: You know, I’ve read some of Manhunter, but none of the back ups. What’s her mom’s situation?
Short: She’s the new DA for Gotham, but she’s commuting to and from LA to keep her family safe. Especially since right now she’s going toe to toe with Jane Doe and Two-Face, all while a killer commute and trying to keep her family safe.
Harper: Whoa. That’s awesome. You know, I read Arkham Reborn and I didn’t even pick up on her being the new DA. How did I miss that?
I don’t think anyone else read this besides Brandon, but I’d say my second favorite new mom in recent memory has to be Bianca Reyes, Jamie Reyes/Blue Beetle’s mom. For all of the same reasons Debbie Grayson is awesome, but there is something that feels real about her. In Blue Beetle, John Rogers wrote that family as a real family would interact. But you know, with aliens and Green Lanterns and things of that sort in the mix. She took it all in stride, and is just a damn awesome comic mom.
Richardson: How many other mothers are there in comics who have to balance their “other job” with their family life? I’m interested to see what happens with Jessica and Luke’s baby now that Jessica is planning on going back to being Jewel, especially after chewing Luke out for not keeping their child safe.
Harper: Not a whole lot. I suppose you have Sue Storm, Kate Spencer, and we had Catwoman for a time. Umm…umm…I can’t really think of a whole lot.
Short: After a quick google, Black Canary is an adopted mom. And apparently not a good one at that.
Harper: Yeah. Sin. Sin, the kid who she once fought when she was living with the League of Assassins because Lady Shiva made her. I’m pretty sure Canary blew up the place they were at, adopted her, then Green Arrow faked the kids death and sent her to a monastery because Canary kind of sucked at mother. You would think that would have bothered her, but hey, they had a bitching wedding shortly there after. Like a month after. Apparently being a mother wasn’t a huge priority for Dinah.
Continued belowHarper: To be fair though, did anyone expect a kid named “Sin” to last very long as a positive influence?
Short: I suppose that’s true.
You know, it IS hard to think of mothers that are superheroes. But maybe the stresses are too much. Even a superhero who made up the fact she was a mother went nuts. I’m looking at you Scarlet Witch.
Uh oh, did I just bring Steven R. Stahl into this?
Richardson: I think we see less superheroes that are mothers because it is hard to rationalize a character both being a superhero and watching over their child responsibly, and it’s more “acceptable” for men to be the irresponsible ones who don’t raise their own children. Just a thought.
Short: So true. How many bad fathers are out there in comics? But I suppose that’s another round table for another time.
Harper: Yeah, that’s for Father’s Day. There are a whole slew of them, but I think Walt hit the nail on the head with what he said. It’s a double standard, but it’s a double standard that for some reason is palatable.
Here’s an honest question for you guys: is there a single comic out there that has produced worse examples of mothering than Watchmen?
Short: Well, there’s the whole “turning my son into a remote controlled killing machine” thing.
Harper: That really is the gold standard right now isn’t it?
Short: I can’t think or anything better, or in this case, worse.
Richardson: If I remember correctly, the mother in Promethea was rather unpleasant. Perhaps Alan Moore doesn’t like mothers as much as he doesn’t like the current state of the industry?
Harper: At the very least, he has an inverse relationship with mothers and how much he appreciates beards.
Short: Here’s a question for you guys. the moms in Runaways, on the list for best or worst? That one is ridiculously gray.
Harper: They were evil…but loving. In the end they sacrificed themselves for their children, and always had designs on making the world the perfect place for their kids. I’d say good parents, awful people.
Alright, final thing before we wrap this up: let’s say we have a Mount Rushmore of Comic Book Mothers. Who would we put up there? Surrogate moms count.
Richardson: My pick: Ultimate Aunt May, Debbie Grayson, Jessica Jones and Talia al’Ghul. Just for kicks.
Short: Mom Rushmore: Ultimate Aunt May, Sue Storm, Ma Kent and a sneaky nomination in Lori Grimes. She probably had the toughest job ever.
Harper: She cheated on Rick! She’s out! No way is she on my Mom Rushmore.
Alright, I think we need a Mt. Rushmore as a site. Here’s my fearsome foursome: Ultimate Aunt May, Debbie Grayson, Bianca Reyes, and Ma Kent.
So leading vote getters are: Aunt May (3), Debbie Grayson (2), Ma Kent (2).
Who do we think should be the fourth guys?
Short: How do her actions as a wife affect her actions as a mother. Didn’t she think Rick was dead too?
Harper: True, but I think that any action you take as a person affects your overall performance as a parent. It brought strife and tension into an already tough situation for Carl. Now he’s killing kids. Thanks a lot Lori!
Short: It’s a terrible situation. And Carl has been through A LOT since her death. Attempted Child Rape anyone? You can’t blame all that on her. I think she made the best of a horrific situation.
Richardson: I hate to say it, but I haven’t been keeping up with Walking Dead. Bad Walter.
Short: Whoops! Sorry, spoiler! hahahah
Richardson: To tip the scales, I’ll change my joke vote for Talia to Sue Storm. She’s had to put up with all sorts of stuff from Reed, and it sometimes seems like she has had to raise the children by herself (though Reed is getting better).
Harper: Alright, I’m down.
Multiversity’s Mount Rushmore of Mom’s: Ultimate Aunt May (mom of the year), Debbie Grayson, Ma Kent, and Sue Storm.
I like it! We can go ahead and call Talia Reverse Mom of the Year though. I’m sure Damien would agree.
Short: It needs a catchy name. Mom Rushmore, Mount Rushmom, Something.
Harper: I like Mount Rushmom. It’s bizarre and creepy enough to be hilarious.
