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What Do You REALLY Know About Comics? 2.4, with Tim

By | February 14th, 2014
Posted in Columns | 19 Comments

Welcome back for another new installment of What Do You REALLY Know About Comics?, the interview series that takes non-comics readers and attempts to give them a different understanding of the great medium of comics that we all love.

Today’s interview is very intriguing, harsh at moments but still very insightful. The reason I started doing these interviews was because I felt that most people had no idea what comics really were. Today’s interview is with Tim — he’s a bartender in his forties. With these interviews I get people recommended to me, or I run into them through social interactions, work events, etc, but in this case I happen to know Tim because he’s a bartender at a bar in Queens that I go to. I’ve known him for about ten years. Over that time I’ve had a few talks with him about comics and their growing acknowledgement in pop culture. Tim has not been a fan. We do have a slight basis for this conversation, and while the conversation gets spirited, there’s a solid debate that goes on that I think is worth hearing.

So let’s get right into it and let’s find out what Tim REALLY knows about comics.

Joe Mulvey: Okay Tim, firstly I just want to say I appreciate you doing this.

Tim: If it will finally shut you up about comic books, I’m happy to do it.

Joe Mulvey: Okay, so for the people who are listening or reading, we do know each other and we’ve kind of had a few conversations about comics before.

Tim: Yeah. But what do you mean listening? I thought you write these up.

Joe Mulvey: I do, but I’ve been toying with the idea of a podcast so you can listen to them rather than read them. They get lengthy. These things take ten or twenty minutes to do but take me much longer to transcribe. Plus, hearing people talk helps a lot with context about what they’re saying.

Tim: Well, type this one up. I don’t want my voice on some website.

Joe Mulvey: Tim, you have the voice of an angel. An angel Jack Klugman.

Tim: I knew that was coming.

Joe Mulvey: Okay, so Tim, what do you know about comics?

Tim: What do I know about them? I know that they’re primarily children’s books. And some adults, and I use the term adult loosely, like you, still read them.

Joe Mulvey: That’s exactly the type of perception that made me start doing these interviews. Man, if I can turn you around, Tim, I might retire from life. You’re my white whale.

Tim: You ain’t gonna be retiring, trust me.

Joe Mulvey: Have you ever read a comic?

Tim: Yeah, as a kid.

Joe Mulvey: Okay, so here’s the quick explanation I give to almost everyone I do these interviews with who say the kind of things you’re saying. If you turned on a TV and saw a cartoon, would you just assume that ALL that’s on a TV is cartoons? No, you’d change the channel and see what else is on. Same for ANY entertainment medium. Books, music, video games, theater. You don’t like one kind, but you may like another. Comics are no different.

Tim: But they’re all books with big pictures and little words, right?

Joe Mulvey: Not exactly. I mean, the art and writing combined but thats the form. They’re illustrated stories.

Tim: Right. And you read books like those when you’re a kid. Then you grow up and don’t need the pictures at a certain point.

Joe Mulvey: Comic books are words and illustrations. That’s the formula. Sequential storytelling. Just because something is drawn doesn’t mean it’s done so because of a lack of intelligence of the reader. It means it’s meant to be told that way.

Tim: I’m sure it is, when you’re a kid. Then you grow up and don’t want to read stories about Spider-Man climbing up a wall or Superman beating up Godzilla, you want to read about real stuff. I don’t remember seeing many drawings in John Grisham novels.

Image not to scale

Joe Mulvey: Comics aren’t novels. Like I just said, you’re connecting comics to ONE genre. I don’t come in here, see basketball on the TV and say this is a bar that you can only watch basketball in, do I? No. You can change the channel. The same is true for comics. You change the channel. So Superman or Spider-Man is one show on one station, plenty of other stuff out there.

Continued below

Tim: And does it always look like a little kids-sized magazine?

Joe Mulvey: No. I mean, a lot of comics come out in that style and format but there are also hardcover editions of books. Trade paperbacks, oversized editions, digitally on your phone or computer. There’s a lot of different ways to get the books.

Tim: I’ve still seen them in that little shitty, stapled together way.

Joe Mulvey: Right and that’s how most initially come out every wednesday, as periodicals. So, like, when a story arc or series is done, they collect it all and make into a collected edition. Like I said before, a trade paperback or hardcover, etc.

Tim: Right, but the books come out like the old type of shitty magazine rags.

Joe Mulvey: They aren’t as shitty as your making them sound. The printing quality is pretty good on most books.

Tim: They’re rags and you know why they make them like that? Because they’re for kids. And little kids don’t take care of shit. So they print up shitty little rags knowing they’ll ruin them.

Joe Mulvey: They’re not shitty. Newspapers are shitty. And they sell those to adults. With some grown up stuff in them like war and terrorism and murder. Not to mention the COMICS section in there. Even the Mega Adults who run the newspapers know people like some comics to break up the shitfest of bad news. They’re an escape. A form of entertainment that’s able to tell stories in ANY genre.

Tim: Newspapers have to be printed on cheap shit. They come out every day and are meant to be thrown away. Same thing with comics for kids.

Joe Mulvey: Are magazines rags?

Tim: Slightly better rags. A little shinier but still disposable.

Joe Mulvey: But what’s inside them isn’t for kids necessarily, right?

Tim: It could be, depends on the magazine.

Joe Mulvey: EXACTLY! It’s the same with comics. So, you could pick one up that’s a young adult book or one that’s meant for an adult. But every book has the ability to be enjoyed by really anyone who picks it up.

Tim: Yeah, okay. I get your point. What else?

Joe Mulvey: I need to know some of your entertainment preferences. Give me some of your favorite current or all time movies or TV shows.

Tim: All time?

Joe Mulvey: Or just now. What’s on your DVR at home or what was the last movie you saw? Just tell me what you watch.

Tim: The news. Reruns. HBO or movie channels. Sports.

Joe Mulvey: I need more specifics. Name me some shows or movies that you watch. What’s your all time favorite movie? The one you never pass up if it’s on.

Tim: The Outlaw Josey Wales. The Godfather. Indiana Jones. Rio Bravo. The Untouchables. Unforgiven. Shawshank Redemption. Usual Suspects. I don’t know. Silence of the Lambs. I watched the new Hannibal show too. Sick. Good movies and shit. Classics.

Joe Mulvey: Okay and is there anything you could think of that’s slightly more recent.

Tim: More recently? Jesus. Taken was good. Zero Dark Thirty was good but I think its “true story” act is bullshit. I saw one of the Fast and Furious movies. I couldn’t tell you which fucking one.

Joe Mulvey: Just out of curiosity, have you ever watched a movie based on a comic book? And if so did you like it?

Tim: I’ve seen a few minutes of Iron Man and the new Batman movies but never the whole thing.

Joe Mulvey: Why never the whole thing?

Tim: Because it’s ridiculous. Men jumping around in halloween costumes trying to act serious. It’s embarrassing. Too embarrassing to watch. I can’t do it.

Joe Mulvey: You know that every person in any movie or on every TV show is wearing a costume right? They’re all acting and pretending in some sort of costume. Be it a waitress, a cop, a farmer, a hooker or a superhero vigilante. None of them are really who they’re dressed up as.

Tim: No, but a doctor is a real person. A cop is real. But a guy in a tight suit and a cape who runs off rooftops isn’t. That’s not real, that’s kiddie fantasy shit. Seeing that shit is embarrassing.

Continued below

Joe Mulvey: Have you ever seen Road To Perdition?

Tim: No. I don’t think so. Who’s in it?

Joe Mulvey: Tom Hanks. He’s like a mob enforcer.

Tim: With a little kid?

Joe Mulvey: Yeah, exactly.

Tim: Yeah, Yeah I saw that. He dies at the end?

Joe Mulvey: Yeah. Did you like it?

Tim: Eh, I don’t remember that much but, I don’t know, I think so.

Joe Mulvey: Were you uncomfortable because of how anyone dressed?

Tim: No.

Joe Mulvey: Well, Tim, that movie was based off a comic book. No superheroes. No capes or tights just a good story. You watched an entire comic book movie. Do you feel dirty now?

Tim: I feel just fine.

Joe Mulvey: But do you see what I’m getting at? That’s my point with doing all of this. Comics aren’t all tights and capes. Tights and capes are fine. They can be a fun genre of their own but they’re just one genre of many. And there’s tons of books out there I’m sure you would like.

Tim: That’s all fine but I don’t care if you showed me Road to Perdition or Spider-Man or whatever as a comic book. I don’t need to look at a book full of pictures to read a story.

Joe Mulvey: What the hell do you think movies are? MOVING PICTURES THAT TELL A STORY!

Tim: That’s video of real people. Not drawings.

Joe Mulvey: Okay, see here’s where I think there’s a slight disconnect with how you view the point of the illustrations. It’s not to aid the reader in understanding the material. It’s art. These illustrations are unbelievably well done by, in a lot of cases, master craftsman. Images work with the words to tell the story. There are amazing storytellers making comics that would be equatable to the cinematographer or director of a film. They work with the writer to tell the story visually to the reader in the best way possible. It’s not a crutch to get across the writing it’s a strength. It’s the one two punch that comics brings to the reader that’s unlike anything else.

Tim: Are you filming an infomercial I should know about.

Joe Mulvey: Only on erectile dysfunction.

Tim: You’re the poster boy.

Joe Mulvey: Words hurt, Tim. Okay, so are there any other shows or movies you enjoy that you can think of before we wrap up?

Tim: Mike and Molly. That’s funny. Old Seinfeld episodes. Everybody Loves Raymond or reruns on late at night. I don’t know. C.S.I I’ll catch here and there.

Joe Mulvey: Got it. Okay so I’m going to give you some reading material — by the way do you read a lot normally?

Tim: No, but if it gets slow here I’ll pick up a paper.

Joe Mulvey: Okay, so how this works is whenever you’re done reading the books, drop me a line and we’ll set up a time to do the follow up interview. Sound cool?

Tim: Yup.

The books I gave Tim were “Torso” from Image, “Magneto: Testament” from Marvel, “Our Love is Real” from Image, “Criminal” Vol. 1 from Icon, “The Activity” Vol. 1 from Image, “Echoes” from Minotaur Press, “Manhattan Projects” Vol. 1 from Image, and “All Star Western” Vol. 1 from DC.

It’s been just about 6 weeks. So let’s find out what he thought.

Joe Mulvey: So it’s been six weeks. Let’s hear it, what did you think?

Tim: You said you’d retire if I liked them right?

Joe Mulvey: I did.

Tim: Well, you’re going to be working until your a hundred.

Joe Mulvey: You didn’t like them? None of them? Really?

Tim: I’ll give you this. The hardcover ones. The packaging on those make’em look a lot better then the raggy ones. But I just couldn’t stop feeling silly reading them. That one about the guys whose dad is a killer on his death bed. That was probably the best. But I couldn’t read this shit all the time.

Joe Mulvey: Okay, let’s start there, you liked “Echoes”? It was a good story wasn’t it?

Tim: Yeah. Black and white made it feel a little like a Hitchcock movie. Distracted me from remembering I was reading a comic book. A little.

Continued below

Joe Mulvey: But you enjoyed it.

Tim: Not really.

Joe Mulvey: C’mon.

Tim: No. It felt like a book report. I had to read the books.

Joe Mulvey: Fine, but were there any others that you really liked, or should I say hated less?

Tim: First one I picked up was the western. I like westerns, ya’know. Eh, it had so many pictures at a certain point enough is enough. Same with the criminal one. Get it over with already.

Joe Mulvey: Sweet Mother, are you impossible. That’s what a comic is. Sequential storytelling. Panels that progress the story.

Tim: And what the fuck was the dog sex one?

Joe Mulvey: That one I threw you in to see if you’d really read them all. But It’s a good example of how different the genres of comics can be.

Tim: Fucking a dog is a genre.

Joe Mulvey: But if you read that book, it’s a good story. That’s all I’m trying to say. Comics aren’t just for kids and the level and quality of the actual storytelling is on par if not higher than any other medium.

Tim: Eh.

Joe Mulvey: You don’t think so? You don’t at least think the stories are more complex or well done than you originally were giving them credit for?

Tim: If they’re so good why isn’t everybody reading them?

Joe Mulvey: I’m asking you, not everyone. You came into this saying you thought comics were for kids. The books I gave you, aren’t for kids. And you mentioned Superman fighting Godzilla. That’s not happening in these books. “The Activity” is a military based book. No flying in there without a helicopter. The Magneto book was about a kid, albeit with super powers, in a concentration camp. These are richer stories than you originally thought, no?

Tim: Slightly.

Joe Mulvey: Slightly?

Tim: They’re still picture books. You want to know what I really think?

Joe Mulvey: Absolutely.

Tim: I think these types of books are for kids. They were originally made for kids. Hear me out. But you and some other group of people liked them so much and wanted to keep reading them or even making them so you try to make them more adult so then they seem like something better or bigger than they really are. Just let them be for kids and grow up. Go make real books.

Joe Mulvey: First off, it has nothing to do with growing up. You’re the one stuck on the idea of saying this is a kids only thing. That’s the equivalent of me saying only alcoholics should be in bars. If you’re a casual drinker or someone just out for the night, don’t go to a bar. Grow up and have a drink at a restaurants. Leave the bars to the addicts.

Tim: Now you’re getting crazy. Bars are places for adults. You need to be a certain age to get in here. It’s a place, not a fucking book.

Joe Mulvey: I’m telling you that a type of book is not just for kids. It can be for anyone. I don’t get how your criticizing one specific type of fiction as just for kids. That’s crazy.

Tim: Okay, I’m crazy.

Joe Mulvey: Tim, it is. Especially because it sounded there for a bit like you kinda liked the books. So I don’t know. Are you conflicted, Tim? Are you afraid to like comic books? You’re the only one putting a stigma on them. I accept you no matter what you like.

Tim: Yeah, you accept me alright. Look, the bottom line is that the books feel silly to me no matter what. They had some good ideas in them, I’ll grant ya that. The western book had some stuff. That Einstein book would be interesting but maybe as a movie or on TV. That’d work. But following with pictures feels asinine. If you don’t want my opinion stop asking for it.

Joe Mulvey: Tim, I appreciate this conversation, I’m being serious I’m not trying to bust your balls. I want your opinions as wrong as I think they may be. Let me just ask you a few more things and then we’re done.

Continued below

Tim: As long as you keep drinking you can ask me whatever you want.

Joe Mulvey: Plus I’m a good tipper.

Tim: You’re okay.

Joe Mulvey: So if these books were just novels, or whatever you’d consider “real books” and not comics, would that change your idea about them?

Tim: Yes. Not for all of them. Not the dog fucking book —

Joe Mulvey: That one you prefer the pictures. Got it.

Tim: Shut up. For the crime ones, I’d read those as real books. “Echoes” and “Torso,” all the panels and writing all over the place. Scratch that shit and give me just a book book. I’d have probably enjoyed it.

Joe Mulvey: Interesting. So, maybe it’s just the language of comics that don’t work for you. Maybe you just don’t connect with the art. Do you see any artistry in all the drawings?

Tim: Artistry? No. It’s a drawing. I mean, I couldn’t do it. Wouldn’t want to anyway.

Joe Mulvey: Okay, I’m not gonna even get into that. Would you say you at least have a different appreciation for comics?

Tim: Appreciation?

Joe Mulvey: Maybe understandings the better word. You know now they aren’t all about capes and tights. There’s different types of stories.

Tim: Yeah, I guess so.

Joe Mulvey: Alright, I’ll take that as a small victory. Thanks for doing this, Tim. I know it wasn’t easy. Reading, I mean.

Tim: Thank me in the tip.

Okay, so we didn’t get Tim onboard as a fan but at least we broadened his idea of what comics are. As always, I highly recommend the books mentioned in today’s interview.

As always, PLEASE let me hear your feedback. Feel free to give me YOUR suggestions on reading material. I love comics but I don’t read everything. My suggestions come from my reading. So if you’ve got an idea, I want to hear it.

Thanks to Multiversity for hosting these interviews. I feel like we have a great home here and I’m very appreciative of it.

I also want to thank all of you who’ve supported my book “SCAM” from ComixTribe. Right now we have a KickStarter going for the “SCAM” Ultimate Collection. Collecting the trade and the never before seen “SCAMthology” — 100+ pages featuring 15 new stories from characters throughout the “SCAM” universe, featuring creators such as Jason Ciaramella, Joe Esima, Amy Chu, Nick Pitarra, Ben McCool, Charles Paul Wilson, Paul Allor, Josh Flannagan, Tyler James, Alex Cormack, Jon Lees, myself and many more. If you’re interested in super powered con-men then this is definitely the book for you! Please go check the “SCAM” ULTIMATE COLLECTION here.


//TAGS | What Do You Really Know About Comics?

Joe Mulvey

Joe Mulvey is the writer/artist of SCAM #1 from ComixTribe, as well as all around good dude.

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