The Flash 609 Crisis on infinite earths part 3 Television 

Schedule of Five Reviewers: A “Crisis on Infinite Earths: Part 3” Conversation

By , , , and | December 11th, 2019
Posted in Television | % Comments

It’s that time of year again. Time for the DCW TV Critics Society of Multiversity to come together and discuss the annual crossover. This year, though, we’ve got something a bit different thanks to the MASSIVE event that is “Crisis on Infinite Earths;” This time, there are five of us. Yup, five people in one conversation? Chaos, you say! Well, fear not for rather than chaos, we got something more ordered and a little more scattershot. Coordinating between this many time zones and schedules with day jobs is a tough thing, y’all. So join us for some of our thoughts, a bit of a chat, and get ready for part two, coming to a screen near you later tonight and our thoughts the next day.

Editor’s Note: Conversation has been edited for clarity & to account for our, well, time zone coordination. If it seems like we jump around, just pretend that universe’s segment was wiped by the Anti-Monitor. Spoilers ahead.

Worlds will live. Worlds will die. And nothing will ever be the same again.

Michael Mazzacane: I declare this an official Crisis, we have a dead Flash!

OMG the Specter!!!!! Pulling that Hal Jordan redemption.

Eias Rosner: That was a fantastic moment and yeah! I hadn’t considered that this was the moment that solidified the Crisis

Joe Skonce: I don’t think I’ll ever get tired of the slow-mo to speed up of The Flash during plot relevant moments. Especially as they cut in the scene from the 90’s series. That got me.
Also, pretty classic Barry to be all, “WELL, Maybe I’ll die too! You don’t KNOW!”

Ramon Piña: Damn! I thought Barry-Earth 1 was really going to die, but I’m glad he didn’t. It was an ingenious solution, they managed to keep it emotionally meaningful.

Christopher Chiu-Tabet: It was a pretty obvious solution to the conundrum Barry and co. have had all year, but it made the disappointment of Shipp’s sudden departure from “Elseworlds” worth it.

ER: Yeah. I’m still not convinced that this is the end the Monitor talked about for this Barry. It is a way to hit the beats from the original “Crisis” while still subverting expectations, like what happened to Routh Superman was has been DONE DIRTY.

And that’s really been Crisis’s strength. For all the alternate worlds and different versions, they make each moment meaningful and powerful so that the story can support the emotions and not have a disconnected between the two.

RP: Yeah, It has a lot of fanservice, but it doesn’t affect or make the story any less good.

MM:: a theory: the actor they have playing Ryan Choi is going to be pressed into Legends since Routh and Ford are exiting the show. He’s a family man, as Legends has shown there is a high likelihood he’s going to be drugged and thrown on the wave rider

JS: Maybe his family will come along for the ride! Mick has proven himself to be a good babysitter after all.

Legends of Tomorrow: the best family care in the biz!

RP: They showed us the picture of their family, which mean they hired them, so, I assume they are planning to keep them around, surely on Legends of Tomorrow.

ER: I didn’t know they were leaving but that explains at lot. I hope we get the non-powered family on board! That’d be a great dynamic for the Legends to deal with.

MM:I kinda hope the keep AI Leonard around, if Rachel Maddow can make audio cameos there’s no way they can’t get Wentworth Miller to send them something he recorded on his iPhone.

RP: So, what did you think of this episode guys? What was your favorite part?

ER: This crossover has not disappointed yet and it remains difficult to pick just one moment as my favorite. That said, I think the whole Barry & Barry conversation and Barry stealing Barry’s powers had to be my favorite of the episode. Wait. Actually, strike that. Kate & Kara’s back and forth across the episode. They’re quickly becoming the new Superfriends to replace Barry & Ollie and I am good with that. If we can carry these moments of growth over to their shows, I think it’ll be even better.

Continued below

Oh, OH. That Diggle/Ollie reunion in the spirit world. Loving that full circle connections for the show that birthed Diggle.

CCT: I continue to be impressed by how each episode still focuses on the protagonist of their respective shows, which in this case turned out to be the Flash of Earth-90 as well as our Barry Allen. I’ve never watched the ‘90s series, yet I feel I’ve witnessed something momentous watching the end of that incarnation – sure, John Wesley Shipp will probably come back as Jay Garrick, but that doesn’t change the rarity of seeing this character having a final ending.

RP: Well I have been rambling about how Barry has been used in the crossover, so today was the Flash episode and I was not disappointed at all. There were a lot of great moments, I was particularly happy that Ollie decided NOT to come back, is he going to be the new Spectre? Will he play a bigger role from another place?

Barry’s sacrifice was beautiful, emotional and impactful, I loved it, but I agree with Elias, the conflict between Supergirl and Batwoman was really great and my favorite, at first I was a little disappointed that Kate took the kryptonite, but then I was a little scared of Kara for her blindsided idea of bringing back the dead and shouted to the TV “use it girl! Use that kryptonite!” At the end I loved how they solved their problem, with pure courage from Batwoman, and as a good friend, Kara let her keep the kryptonite, you never know when it is going to be necessary to use against a god.

JS: I’m probably going to have to go with the big sacrifice moment when Barry saved Barry from doing the most Barry thing possible by doing the most Barry thing. Comics, ya gotta love em. We spent the whole episode watching goodbyes, meaningful conservations about what it means to be a hero, preparations to lay it all on the line. I was truly ready for Barry (Earth-1 that is) to have his moment of sacrifice. But watching Earth-90 Barry make the sacrifice, for some reason it just worked for me.

Oh, that and Lex just is just such a ‘lil stinker. Writing himself into the Book of Destiny, that’s some real grade-A asshole right there. That guy playing Lex is funny, someone should put him into a sitcom with 1.5 other men.

ER: Lex fucking Luthor. This was my least favorite moment. This smug asshole just has to be shoehorned into EVERYTHING. I’m was already real tired of it over on Supergirl and I’m extra real tired of it here. Him replacing Brandon Routh Superman is an extra punch because that just means we get even less time with him! Dammit Cryer, if you weren’t such a good Lex, I would be royally pissed. As it is, I’ll just be somewhat miffed.

What do you disliked of this episode?

JS: I don’t think this is necessarily fair, but Ryan Choi just feels way too underdeveloped in this episode. I get that there’s a lot going on. We have Earths being destroyed, giant Flash powered laser cannons, growing friendships in the face of oblivion, I just don’t understand why Choi is here. To be fair, neither do the heroes (which was a nice touch) but give us something. He’s the “Paragon of humanity,” it would have been nice to have at least one scene to show us why.

RP: agree, so far his inclusion is not justified, but I hope that this means that in the next two episodes he has more leverage.

CCT: I feel similarly, there’s just so much going on that the incorporation of characters like Choi and Black Lightning began to feel perfunctory. It’s also starting to drag a little as you realize the multiverse is coming back – as I remarked in my Black Lightning, there’s no way season 3 is resuming with Jefferson taking the place of his Earth 1 counterpart, and it’s undercutting how dramatic and convincing the destruction of all the Earths are.

RP: yeah, obviously at the end all will be solved and, if not infinite, we will still have multiple earths, there’s a reason Supergirl and Black Lighting are on other earths, also, they have been building Black Lighting in story arcs, so it’s impossible that they throw all that design in function of having just one earth.

Continued below

It’s a little early for this, given that we don’t know what will happen next, but I don’t feel so comfortable with the idea that there are only the six paragons (and freaking Lex) and everybody else died, are the next two episodes going to have only those characters?

ER: The jobbing Lyla did to show how powerful she was with the Anti-Monitor’s power was a neat scene but I feel like we lost something by just having him take her over instead of, I dunno, feeding her insecurities or motivating her to do the big betrayal like in the comics. I dunno, it just felt too easy and a way to reduce the cast size for the big finale.

JS: I’m surprised we ended up where we did. I assumed we were going to have multiple cliffhangers with the Paragons split up and all in their own dire situations. I also found the change to Harbinger’s motivations surprising. I guess they are trying to keep Lyla redeemable, but there is just something lost in making her simply a vessel for the Anti-Monitor.

JS: By the way I was really worried that I was going to have to eat crow about my comment about “Kate and Kara being better than their cousins.” It really felt like they were going to force a conflict onto them, and it wasn’t something I wanted to see necessarily. But what we got was very good! It was a conflict of ideas, with both of them presenting sound arguments and actually hearing each other out. It was even nicer when they used each others virtues at the end.

CCT: Kara and Kate in this episode is going to cause so many ships to sail.

JS: There were other interesting moments as well. What is Oliver’s new role? Is there some mystical “Green Arrow” force that gets passed on from one person to another? Where will things go from here?

I also just have to say, still totally loving Routh as Superman. His little monologue about hope coming through the darkness was quite moving.

RP: I love that mystery they are building with Ollie. Yesterday Joe talked about how sick he is with the Lazarus Pit, and I agree, it makes every death solvable, the possibility of bringing back literally anybody (who still has a body) removes leverage to the story and they kinda solved that with this episode. Yeah, they can bring back anybody, but what if they don’t want to come back? What if they had a mission AFTER their death? On the other side, entering purgatory was meaningful, with Diggle and Mia were able to say their goodbyes to Ollie.

ER: This was an episode of great moments and fun cameos, just as always. Opening with the old CW Birds of Prey Earth was a great nod and then getting actual footage from the 90s Flash? Love that kind of reuse. OK, actually, this is going to be mostly a list of all the easter eggs but we got the best of guest spots from the devil himself, Tom Ellis’s Lucifer on, get this, Earth-666. Classic. I’ve been a bit behind on Lucifer (read, an entire season) but now that I know Constantine makes an appearance, I may finally go back and catch up.

Finally, we got that good good lampshading on NBC’s criminal cancellation of Constantine way back in 2015 with the “you’re not my Corrigan.” I’m not still bitter that it ended with no resolution because it was cut back to 13 episodes and then not revived and was a great mystical horror series that still had room to grow. Not at all.

JS: This episode was darker than the past two episodes, but it was still nice seeing the cameos of other DC shows. It was especially fun with having Lucifer show up (and adding yet another show to my ever-growing list of things to catch up on.)

I’ll also say, I haven’t watched The Flash in a while, so it was nice to have Cisco back. I remember one of the things that made me start to lose interest in that show was Cisco getting gloomy. It’s good to see he’s back to his old self (complete with his utter disgust at the Anti-Monitor being called the Anti-Monitor.)

Continued below

RP: Yeah! Happy Cisco is back this season! (Except for the fact that he got his powers back in this episode). I also love Ralph, all season long I have been loving the character, he is a kind soul and although he had like three scenes he brings something to them, like still being awed at doppelgangers or showing Choi his powers in a fun, not-scary way.

MM: Jefferson and Barry talking in the Waverider library. For the longest time I’ve wanted Jerrerson and Ollie to meet, along with Diggle, in a meeting of the Superdads. I guess Barry counts as a future dad. That bit of fantasy booking isn’t going to happen exactly, but what we got between them in the Library was a meeting of Sons and it was excellent.

CCT: I don’t even watch Lucifer but seeing Tom Ellis opposite Matt Ryan was fantastic – and he still managed to come across as being sinister despite being an ally in this. I know it’s unlikely but I would love to see these two reunite in The Sandman series (guess the next season of Legends will do though).

ER: Guys, Ryan Choi is here! Yes! More DC heroes being brought over, though I hope this doesn’t mean Ray is gonna beef it. I don’t want that! Can we have both? The other two surprise moments for me are related to two other characters that were supposed to die: Ollie & Earth-1 Barry. For the former, the fact that he stays dead but will still be in the finale in a new role. I told y’all this death thing was gonna stick! . . . Fine. Fine. It’s a technicality but I’m taking it.

As for our Barry not dying this week, I think you called it last time, Ramon, but here he is, still alive. I put it here in surprises because I was 65% sure he was gonna get on that treadmill and die but nope! That was Shipp’s role. This doesn’t mean we’re out of the woods, though. There’s no way he’s escaped his destiny yet; they’re just saving it for a later moment when it’ll have more impact.

RP: I honestly was surprised by that! They fulfilled their promise, the Flash IS dead, only it was another version of the character, nicely done. Also, it was a brief scene and maybe not so important, but I loved the hug between Iris and Barry, he did promise to come back and managed to do so *insert a lot of heart and lighting emojis*.

JS: I was surprised (but NOT disappointed) that Ollie didn’t come back considering we spent a whole episode Lazarus Pitting him back to life (grumble grumble Lazarus Pit.) Clearly they are setting something bigger up for Ollie, and I am excited to see what that is.

MM: A real big surprise for me was Jim Corrigan just walking into to frame and transferring the presence into Oliver Queen! That makes sense for this show since it keeps Amell around and also really fits his character. Hal Jordan became the Spectre for a while to atone for his sins as Paralax, Oliver becoming the host fits a similar mold (he has killed more people than Jason Vorhees people.) I started to mark out at this moment much to the surprise and dismay of my table mates (watching COIE in the library at the dead of night is an interesting way to work on final projects.)

RP: I laughed a little, he is an important character and he only steps in, says he needs Ollies help and done, scene. There was no need to explain anything or give him a backstory (although I hope to see more of him).

CCT: Oliver Queen becoming the Spectre makes so much sense I’m infuriated I didn’t call it: he wears a green hood for goodness’ sake.

RP: I was genuinely surprised with how it ended, Lex appearing as a paragon, and the paragon of truth, no less! I was angry at him, and then I laughed at his cynicism, I was not expecting that Lex was going to be this important for the crossover!

ER: Jefferson Pierce not getting to be a paragon was a hard disappointment to me, mostly because it means he was only here for this episode, to have a small bonding moment with Barry, and to give the scene in the Anti-Monitor’s lair a bit more plausible time. I mean, I get it, he’s not a part of the main CWverse but come on. If he’s gonna be brought into the crossover, really bring him into it.

Continued below

JS: I’m a little disappointed that Mick wasn’t around as much. I just want more Mick I think. I also agree that it sucks to bring Black Lightning into your big crossover, basically only to have him be a lightning rod and then die. I’m sure he’ll be back, just wanted more from him.

MM: I also wish Jefferson got more to do just because him tying into the DCWverse and interacting with them has been something I wanted to see. But the sheer production scheduling required to get him and his suit up there is one of those realities – Guggenheim was upfront about that in the burst of interviews he did earlier this week (I think it was this week idk how time really works anymore – should time work anymore now that the positive matter universe is gone?)

RP: So, we all agree, we all were expecting to see more of Black Lighting and he was kinda wasted, he even died with the rest of the non-paragon heroes. Let’s hope that in the next two episodes he reappears along with everybody else, at least for the final showdown.

MM: For the middle point in a 5 part miniseries, the logical place to pull an Empire (or I guess in the parlance of Superheroes Infinity War) Dark Middle Chapter(tm) would be Hour 3. This was surprisingly not all Dark Middle Chapter. They did stop the wave … only for it to start back up again, and a Flash died making it an official crisis, and the remaining other non-Paragons went down with the ship, yet here I am surprisingly not feeling the Dark Middle Chapter of it all. That could be sleep deprivation and caffeine talking typing though.

It leaves up some interesting threads for people to ruminate on for the next couple of weeks. How will our remaining Paragons get out of the Vanishing Point? Lex Luthor Hero? How will everything be put back together, but it’s all laced with hope and not darkness.

RP: Well, I’m anxious to see how the Crossover ends, remember folks, the next episode comes out in a whole month, Tuesday, January 14, talk to you then.


//TAGS | crisis on infinite earths | The Flash

Ramon Piña

Lives in Monterrey, México. He eats tacos for a living, literally. You can say hi on Twitter and Instagram. Besides comics, he loves regular books and Baseball - "Viva Multiversity Cabr*nes!".

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Christopher Chiu-Tabet

Chris is the news manager of Multiversity Comics. A writer from London on the autistic spectrum, he enjoys tweeting and blogging on Medium about his favourite films, TV shows, books, music, and games, plus history and religion. He is Lebanese/Chinese, although he can't speak Cantonese or Arabic.

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Elias Rosner

Elias is a lover of stories who, when he isn't writing reviews for Mulitversity, is hiding in the stacks of his library. Co-host of Make Mine Multiversity, a Marvel podcast, after winning the no-prize from the former hosts, co-editor of The Webcomics Weekly, and writer of the Worthy column, he can be found on Twitter (for mostly comics stuff) here and has finally updated his profile photo again.

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Michael Mazzacane

Your Friendly Neighborhood Media & Cultural Studies-Man Twitter

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Joe Skonce

Joe Skonce was born, raised, and currently resides in Ohio, but has been exploring fantastical and imaginary worlds for as long as he can remember. He loves big guys and barbarians, pirates and puppets, and is always down to find nerdy new things. Come say hi to him on twitter @tunabellgrande.

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