Michelle Lam Talks Instagram Comics, “Meesh the Bad Demon” and Boba

Dan Brown’s got nothing on “Meesh The Bad Demon,” Michelle Lam’s debut graphic novel of demons and angels. OK, it’s really demons and fairies and Bub Lava but you get me. While we didn’t get to dig into Brown’s strange, strange book series, I did get to chat with Michelle about her work as an animator, the whims of the Instagram algorithm, and swinging for the fences in a fantasy story. Oh and stay tuned to the end for what we think Bub Lava ACTUALLY tastes like. You Will Be SHOCKED (Or maybe not.)

Thanks again to Michelle for sitting down with me (and to Josh Chun for the lovely author photo!)

This is your first graphic novel, kind of a debut, but you’ve been doing comics for quite a while and you’ve been in animation for, I would presume as long? Longer? What’s the journey to this point?

Michelle Lam: I’ve definitely been in the animation industry longer. I have been working on this book – “Meesh the Bad Demon” – for the past few years. So it kind of feels just as long as I was an animation, but I did originally go to school to study character animation and I ended up doing storyboarding and primarily focusing in the storyboarding world. And I think as I was doing that, that’s when I started posting comics on Instagram. When I did that, that’s kind of when, you know, people started reaching out to me asking “are you interested in publishing a book? That could be a thing. That is a possibility.” And that’s kind of the birth of my publishing journey with comics. It kind of started after I began my job working in the animation industry.

So who did you work with in animation? What was your job there?

ML: In the beginning, when I first graduated, my first job was at Glen King Productions/Netflix animations on this preschool show called The Trash Truck.

That’s a great name.

ML: I know, right? And it’s totally something that you wouldn’t envision me to work on. But it was my first job and I feel like, while I was in this entry level position, I had so much time to just think about my own projects or think about my future. So on the side, after work and stuff, I would start working on my own personal comics and just do that as kind of a side thing. And that’s what eventually bled into this Marissa at Penguin Random House/Knopf reaching out to me, and that’s kind of how the whole situation came to be.

When you were working on these on the side comics, you were just kind of doing them for yourself, right?

ML: Yeah, pretty much.

What were some of the the topics that you enjoyed coming back to over and over again, that just seemed to get traction?

ML: So I think the comics that primarily got me more attention on Instagram were definitely anything that dealt with being a woman in society, or just you know, being misunderstood, or any kind of wholesome moments that people feel in life. Those are kind of the things that I didn’t really expect people to care much for but once I started just sharing my own raw, honest experiences, kind of just like, being a girl living her life and the world, that’s when people started being like, “Oh, yeah. I’ve totally experienced something like this.” And they say, “Oh, I can relate to this part of the story.” I think when I was reached out to for publishing a graphic novel, they also were just like, “Oh, we’d love to see a middle grade novel for girls or something like that.” So I felt like that was my initial…key or something that people were interested in from the beginning.

Concept Sketch

It’s interesting. When I hear relatability, I don’t necessarily think extremely personal. Which is weird, because the two are often inextricably linked.

ML: Yeah, for sure.

But when you were sharing these stories and making the comics, did you think that your comics would change based on that? Or were you like, “Nope, I’m doing what I’m going to do.”

ML: Like, would my comics change based off of whether or not they would relate to people or something?

Yeah. Like, did it, after a while, the people’s calling it relatable…I just, I feel like it would get to my head. I’d be like…I have to have to tailor make it to what I think people want instead of what I know that would be good

ML: I think in the beginning, when Instagram wasn’t so algorithm driven and you could still kind of share whatever you wanted, I was still kind of sharing whatever I wanted, like it wasn’t too much of a thing for me to focus on “this has got to be relatable, this has got to be relatable.” Like in my head, I was just like, “I’m just gonna share a story from my life and hopefully someone will just find it entertaining.” That was the approach I was going for. I kind of had a collection of stories in my head already, from my past as a teenager or like a young adult in college that I was like, “Oh, I really just want to make a story about this and just share it and just leave it as that.” That was kind of the way I originally approached it.

But I would say recently, it actually maybe affected me a little bit more, only because now that my first graphic novel is coming out and, you know, I got to make sales with my book and hopefully have it be to some degree successful, I’m like…well, I think I should probably take my Instagram a little bit more seriously. If I really want this book to get the exposure that, you know, I can do my best to provide for it, I should try to maybe make comics that could draw in larger audiences to expose it more. So that has kind of been like my marketing tactic, I guess as of late.

Even if it’s not about the comic itself, I’ll still draw a comic from my life, focusing more on its potential relatability and then using that opportunity to promote my book at the end of it to just get more eyes if possible. For some reason, I just feel like Instagram is kind of hard to promote yourself nowadays and if I were to just choose an excerpt from my book, I don’t think people would initially be as interested just because it’s not familiar to them. And they’ll be like, “Oh, what’s this? Okay. Cool, whatever.” And then move on.

How has a publishing on Instagram changed since you first started?

ML: I definitely think nowadays you have to post a lot more than before. I remember in the past I only posted once a week and that was totally fine. Like, I really didn’t put that much effort into thinking about growing an audience whatsoever. But then more recently, when I was like, “Okay, well, if I want t do something with my future with my career in publishing or even just in more of an internet based project I would probably need some sort of audience to actually have my work be shown to.

So lately it’s been harder to really grow as fast as before, but the way that I’ve been able to maintain some sort of growth is just by posting once a week still. Like I could still get by with posting once a week. But again, I just have to really focus on making those comics something that I know that at least most people who generally have been following my work will like. I feel like nowadays, there’s a lot more strategy and just competition with reels because it’s hard as an artist posting only artwork, when others are posting full on videos. You’re just like, “I already have to make the art. I don’t have time to do that. Like what?”

You don’t have time to do the animation too. You know what it’s like in the industry.

ML: Yeah, for sure.

Oh, man. That must be really difficult, trying to deal with the whims of the Instagram algorithm.

ML: I know. And it’s so frustrating because I feel like now, even as an author or anyone who’s trying to get their name out there, there’s so much dependence on utilizing a platform on some sort of social media site to just promote yourself or promote your work. And it’s just like…I thought this was what the publishing company was supposed to do for me.

So it sounds like you really don’t like doing the marketing side of things.

ML: It’s definitely not my favorite. But I feel like most artists might probably feel this way, where, you know, at the end of the day, if we didn’t have to promote our work and people could magically see it and just gravitate towards it? That would be great. But I do think you have to stand up for yourself. You’re the only one who’s going to be representing your work so I do feel like you have to put more effort in promoting yourself and it’s not that enjoyable, because I would of course rather be posting the art and just leaving it as that and letting it speak for itself.

Even being from the animation industry, once a show comes out so much of it relies on word of mouth nowadays. You can’t always depend on the studio or the publishing company to do the best promotion for you. So you kind of have to be your number one fan at the end of the day.

Are you still working in the animation industry? Have you kind of transitioned more into doing comics full time? Or is it a little bit of both?

ML: Right now, it’s definitely a mixture of both. Primarily, I would still say I work full time in the animation industry. But I would say, literally by night, I am a full on comic artist. It feels like because the full time gig is the traditional route, it feels like that’s what should be my sole identity. But I do feel like I spend more of my mental energy on my book. So in a way, it does feel like it’s equally half and half.

But you know, the fact that my retirement plan and health benefits are tied with animation, it feels a little bit more like my real job.

I would like to be able to eventually someday transition into doing comics full time, and ideally, maybe one day in the future, find a way to merge back into the animation world, like whether it’s hopefully having a book being adapted into an animation, if things align.

Is there a position that you kind of envision yourself in at that point? Like, do you really want to be a showrunner or director or just kind of tangentially involved?

ML:I guess that’s the part I’m still trying to figure out: what I want to do with my long term goals. Because after spending a pretty good amount of time in the animation industry, I’ve seen like showrunners and directors and also the authors that are just tangentially involved and just kind of sitting there be like, “Yeah, I like what I see. I didn’t even have to do anything to make my own show.” And there’s a part of that I feel like I would kind of enjoy. Being like, “Hey, you know. I made this book. Now it’s your turn to do something with it. I’ve moved on with my life and started working on new projects.”

There is some sort of romanticization in that regard. But I do feel like if I could have control of my own project and just be the showrunner of my own book that I made, that would be pretty awesome. The only thing is, I’m aware that sometimes when you work on shows, it could totally be a different project from your book at the end of the day. I feel like that’s an attachment that maybe you would have to let go of. So I would be open to the idea if the opportunity presents itself but I’ll also remember to be aware that projects have a lot of potential to change or even be canceled nowadays. So I’m like, I just won’t be too attached to what happens.

Moving a little bit back. You were talking about working on Trash Truck. Do you think your time working on that show, or maybe in some of the other shows, helped prepare you for making a middle grade graphic novel?

ML: Oh, yeah, for sure. I definitely think that storyboarding has really helped me in the world of comics. Because I feel like when it comes to my style of making comics, you can tell I probably still have a heavy storyboarding influence on it. I do notice when a lot of other comic artists approach their comics, which I think is very beautiful, they kind of have a more illustrative approach and sometimes they make things a little bit more abstract. Honestly, I would love to get to that point in a future comic, too. I think just with my first run of a comic series, I really wanted to apply everything that I’ve known in life, apply all that I know.

I think for me, storyboarding was a really great way to really make your art feel like you’re in a film, you’re in a movie. So when I approached my book, that’s kind of what I wanted to go for. It feels like we’re in one set location and I have cameras set here and there to shoot the panels instead of kind of having a floating illustration kind of situation. I think that’s just the way I wanted to create my art for this first comic series that I’m doing, just to like, be like, “Alright. Just do what you know. You don’t have to think too deeply. You know how to tell a sequential story with storyboards. So just do that with comics.”

That’s kind of how I’ve applied all the feedback and critiques I’ve learned from work into my own book, I guess.

Like really grounding everyone in this world?

ML: Yeah, pretty much. I wanted to make sure that people know where the characters are in each location and making sure everyone’s leaving on the same screen direction or things like that. It’s definitely a mixture of the two worlds.

Yeah, you’d be surprised how difficult that is to do in comics.

ML: It’s pretty difficult!

I do feel like a lot of comic artists also really break the rules in a good way too and I think I’m learning to get to that point. I still feel like I need to make this character feel like they’re in this location. But I’d love to get to a point where I’m like, “Alright, let’s make things a little bit more abstract or have more illustrations or have one illustration say many things instead of breaking something down into like five different panels.” I really admire how some comic artists can just say one thing in one scene.

Are you hoping to be more experimental with your work?

ML: I would love to be more experimental. I think there’s something nice about getting back in touch with my more illustrative or artistic side.

Even though storyboarding is an art, I feel like prior to getting into animation, I did have an interest in just drawing in general and making beautiful things. But then once I got into storyboarding that world is definitely more about, you know, making rough sketches and making things be clear and stuff like that. And, you know, I would love to play with the idea of being experimental, abstract, and maybe being not so direct with everything and, you know, being more raw than usual.

There’s still a lot of those moments in “Meesh” that are…not as rigid as it seems. Like by breaking down every action into multiple panels, it kind of heightens the scenes, makes the emotions greater. And I really like that about the book.

ML: Thank you so much. Yeah, that’s something that I feel like I’ve definitely tried to incorporate into my comics. That was like a thing where…this might be more common in a storyboarding thing, where you have A/B/C poses and maybe in comics, it’s usually not as common.

I do see other artists do that for sure but I was just like, “You know what? This is an element of storyboarding that I really like where I really enjoy…you see characters processing their emotions or you just see like a reaction and I really wanted to be able to incorporate that into my comics as well. I feel like for me, I’m really all about the character. I love like having a lot of emotional processing moments.

From page 14

So what came first? The story of Meesh? the character of Meesh? Was there an entirely different character that came first that maybe changed or moved out?

ML: So primarily on my Instagram, I used to make another character, she’s a different Meesh and she’s more adult for sure. And I, at the end of the day, always wanted to do something with that demon girl, I guess. In this version, she is definitely more brought back to a middle school friendly age and in a more fantastical universe. It’s not as realistic to our daily life and 2023 or anything like that.

I guess it originated from the comics I was making on Instagram but I still wanted to make something totally completely different in a fictional world. I didn’t want to make it too close to reality. I was like, “You know? If I have this opportunity to make a comic book, I’m just gonna make it somewhat epic.” So that’s kind of what I did.

Ultimately, I still wanted to keep some of the points I was trying to make with my Instagram comics, like the concept of just being misunderstood or facing discrimination or making friendships or developing friendships; things like that, or just dealing with societal issues, which are still common themes in my Instagram comics. That’s what I wanted to bring into “Meesh” but, you know, for the middle grade fantasy audience.

Was it a bit of a struggle to make that shift from the much more grounded, albeit cartoony, comics you have on your Instagram and the fantastical, but middle grade, and more fictional versions?

ML: For sure. I mean, first of all, yeah, drawing. This comic is a lot more complex and time consuming than my Instagram comics. But I do feel like I did enjoy drawing a little bit more in the manga or Western anime mixture, because when it comes to my Instagram, I feel a little bit more limited with what I can draw in terms of, “Oh, you only have like 10 panels to tell a story. You have to make this fast.” So I tend to rely on quicker, shorthand doodley types of styles when it comes to my Instagram.

But I really enjoyed how, for my graphic novel, I could be like, this is your time in life to go back to being a weeb in middle school or something when you drew anime all the time or something like that. I was pretty much enjoying it. I think the only difficulty that came along with it was having to do these super tight, clean, more detailed drawings compared to my Instagram.

What’s the process for a typical page on your Instagram versus when you were making the graphic novel? I know that you had a colorist for the graphic novel. I think it was…Perry but I don’t remember the full name.

ML: Yes, it’s Lauren Perry Wheeler.

Thank you.

ML: No prob.

Let’s start with when you’re making your Instagram pages. What’s the typical process for that one, since you said it was, you know, a lot faster, more doodley. And then we’ll take the other half.

ML: For my Instagram, it’s usually a lot quicker of a process. Normally, I’ll have an idea, I’ll write it down and then thumbnail it on Photoshop or something like that. And then I kind of just go straight ahead and start drawing it and coloring it. I don’t really spend too much time thinking about the story. I kind of treat my social media page more like a sandbox for ideas more so than, Oh, here’s a place to make your final work that’s going to determine your future as an artist. It’s definitely more of a “Hey, I’m just here to play. I’m just here to share random ideas I make.” I just don’t take all of my comics, like, too seriously.

Sometimes I’ll be like, “Alright. I do want to polish this one a little bit more but I’ll still try to not spend too much time on it.” And you know, if I really want to make a better version of it in the future, I’ll bookmark this idea and maybe even expand it to an even greater idea in a future published book or something like that. And that’s kind of how my Instagram comic process goes. I just do everything directly. I don’t spend too much time in between each step. But for sure, when it comes to my graphic novels, there’s more waiting time in between the process.

Like normally I’ll do a super scribbly chicken scratch, thumbnail pass and I will have to send over to my editor. Bless her for reading my super scratchy, sketchy, hard to read drawings. But she can read them! So that’s great.

Concept Sketch

So she will normally do a pass and read those and then give me notes and give me, you know, suggestions on things to change or add. Usually after that I’ll have to go through multiple passes. It’s actually more similar to storyboarding, I feel, where I’ll have to be like, “Alright. I’ll apply these notes and I’ll show you the changes in the next round.” And then afterwards, she will review them over with me again and then we’ll see when they are ready to move to final art.

I would say once it gets to final art, things are pretty smooth from there, because we have the story ideas decided and all I have to focus on is drawing, executing. Then once I’m done with that, I just pass it along to Perry and they pretty much color in everything. Usually I don’t have too many notes for their coloring because I feel like they were pretty aligned with my, you know, original vision. So I kind of go in and do my own tweaks but for the most part, they kind of handle most of all the coloring, which I truly appreciate.

Are you not so much a fan of coloring?

ML: I feel like coloring can sometimes be super relaxing, if all I want to do is mindless work. But I think for me to feel like I’m making progress with my story or I’m actually doing something with my work, I feel like drawing is a little bit more of my favorite part of the process because this is the part where you’re really defining like the structure of this piece of art. I think coloring is definitely more of like, furthering, establishing, you know, lighting and the mood which is also really great for storytelling; I just feel like, for me, coloring starts to feel more like a chore when it comes to doing base coloring but when you do lighting and effects and you know that stuff. I love that part. It’s just filling in the lines. Like…gosh darn it.

I don’t want to do paint by numbers!

ML: Yeah, exactly!

So, how do you draw? Is it entirely digitally? Is it a mix of physical and digital or physical? How is the…the actual…the physics of the process, I guess.

ML: So for me, I just go on full digital. I feel like I did some of the brainstorming, and I think when I write my own personal notes from my book, I prefer handwriting and keeping them in just a book because I feel like it helps to have something tangible for me. I don’t know why I feel like anything I type on my computer feels like it just disappears, like, I feel like it just didn’t happen. But I feel like when I have a little book that I can keep on my side, it’s more free flowing when I can like draw arrows and make notes or something and just have it all in one place. That’s how I do notes and maybe initial brainstorming sketches of the characters or just like the world, when I’m thinking about, you know, where I’m conceptualizing the whole idea. Once I start executing on like, the actual story itself, I’m telling that story in it’s thumbnail pass, I just prefer doing it all digital.

I’ll go on Photoshop; I use layer comps to kind of organize the pages and reorder them and see what works and what doesn’t. And afterwards, that’s when I’ll, once I get my notes approved and everything, then I will do the line art. I pretty much directly go from chicken scratch doodles to just clean line art. I don’t really have an middle, in between half-clean, half-messy drawing stage. I feel like for me, I personally…I think my little pet peeve when it comes to drawing is when things feel a little bit too stiff, or sometimes with drawings you feel like you’re trying too hard to glue yourself to the sketch.

I feel like I like to just keep my sketches really loose, really disgusting and I’ll just move on to the final art afterwards because I feel like the little imperfections that kind of comes with the line art brings a little bit more life into it. I don’t want to feel like “Oh. I made this beautiful sketch and it looks so much better than the line art or whatever.” Like most of the time, I tried to just make the line art the clean sketch and sometimes you’ll even see imperfections within my line art but I’m like, whatever. I prefer the way this drawing feels over, you know, how clean or how each gap is like filled or something like that.

What were some of the inspirations for “Meesh?” You had mentioned being inspired by various anime and other Western stories and like, bringing that merging because one of the…not a recurring theme, but one of the recurring elements is this TV show that is clearly a magical girl TV show. But were there any in particular?

ML: Yeah! Growing up, I was heavily inspired by a lot of anime for sure. I was watching Inuyasha but I had my fair share of action/adventure anime, like you know, Inuyasha, Fullmetal Alchemist, but then I also really liked a lot of Magical Girl anime like Tokyo Mew Mew or like, Kamichama Karin. Back in the good old days, those were the only manga that sold at Barnes and Noble and now when I go to Barnes and Noble their manga section has expanded incredibly. I feel like those two like ideas of, like, action/adventure but also fantasy Magical Girl stuff were two major things I really enjoyed.

I was never either like, “Oh. I only like girly things” and I was never just like, “Oh. I only like tomboy stuff either.” I was just like, “There are things about both that I like” and I feel like that kind of shows in my art, where I do have a tendency to like really draw more, like, feminine things but I also can draw like things that maybe are more dark or things that are not considered feminine or whatever if need be. I think that also is Meesh’s internal struggle where she’s, you know, this demon girl but she also really loves these pretty pink cute things as well but she’s in this world where they kind of shun that sort of thing.

That’s kind of my artistic inspiration, I guess, but my more character inspiration is definitely my friends in real life, my family, people that I’ve kind of grown up with. I’m just like, “This character, Xavier, the character that bullies Meesh, is definitely my cousin who bullied me in the past.” We’re on good terms now for sure. But in the past, I was pretty much bullied by my cousins. And we were just kids, so it’s fine. Even me and my friend…so my friend, Noor, who I went to CalArts with, she’s the inspiration behind Princess Noona and I feel like she really embodies that magical girl, she’s just so perfect, and she’s just like, whatever.

I remember when I first heard about her in school. She was this child prodigy, who was like, only 17 years old when she entered our school and I kind of wanted to create a character like that. Where, like, I’ll take my friend Noor, take some magical girl inspiration, merge her into one and, to me, I was just like, oh my gosh. There’s this girl who’s just really cool. And just like, so perfect, but then just like Meesh, she learns that she is not so perfect as the media makes her seem.

And that’s one of the one of the major themes in the work, is kind of the push and pull of perception and reality and how stereotyping overlays on top of that and makes the world a lot harder to live in because of it.

ML: Yeah, yeah. I’m really glad you noticed that because that was one of the things I wanted to really talk about or discuss in my book. We always idolize or glamorize or think things are better, you know, through our lens, but in reality, they’re totally different. Since this book is definitely more targeted to a middle grade audience, I just honestly feel for their generation with like social media and Tik Tok and a lot of unrealistic expectations being presented to teenagers nowadays. It’s just like, wow, it must be kind of tough to, like, compare yourself all the time and think these other kids out there have a life so much more glamorous than yours. But I really wanted to, I guess, kind of talk a little bit about that in my book, where, you know, we live in a day and age where we think things are so perfect outside of our own world but they’re really not. So it’s just…basically being able to face that reality is a part of growing up.

And it’s kind of like one of those don’t meet your heroes things

Are there any scenes in particular in the book that you really liked? If not, like, necessarily creating but the way it came out, what it said, what it did? Could be a funny scene, a serious scene, but were there any that really stuck out to you like…”This. This is the scene that I want other people to really see, to really read.”

ML: I guess one of the parts that really stuck out to me when I was making my book was when Meesh had to say goodbye to her grandma, when she had to run away from her home. I just think that was a part that, for me, in a way – although in the book, it’s a very fictional “Okay. Whatever. Maybe things will be okay at the end, and maybe Meesh will be able to have the chance to save her grandma” – I guess for me…my grandparents, they’ve all passed (rest in peace) but it was kind of a moment of remembering that, for me in my personal journey in my life, I really started growing up when my grandparents passed away. That’s kind of when I started losing more touch of my culture with like, you know, my Chinese heritage. That’s when I had to be on my own to kind of save that part of myself.

So in the book, although it’s more of, “Oh, we’re just gonna run away and hopefully save the world from this poison.” It was more so my personal symbolism of: this is me running away from everything I’ve always ever known, saying goodbye to the ones who raised me to become you know this person and now I have to go out there and save and preserve everything that I’ve ever known my whole life, kind of thing. It’s one of those things where I’m not trying to project any of my childhood past or whatever too much in the book. But for me as an artist, when I’m drawing that moment, this is like the part where I say goodbye to my grandparents and my childhood being raised by them.

Continuing on from, that I wanted to ask about…you mention that with your grandparents and, like, moving on from that you had kind of put parts of your heritage behind, or maybe not put it behind, but kind of left various parts of your heritage behind and how that’s reflected kind of with Meesh…is that something that you feel that you regret now?

Like, I know, personally, my family, my grandparents used to speak Yiddish, and then you know, they spoke German, and I have no connection to that anymore, because it didn’t get passed down to me. I kind of regret that. Not pursuing it more. Is that something? Or is it something you’ve kind of, if not come to terms with, but found where you want to sit and be with?

ML: I feel like there is some level of regret in terms of…I really wish I milked, like, that part of my culture a little bit more back then. Or I really just, you know, made more of that time to practice speaking with them or really engaging in interactions with people within the community or something. But…I guess it really did teach me to try to find ways to appreciate it again on my own without them.

So I will say when it comes to, for example, speaking Cantonese or something like that, I definitely wish I had their assistance right now. I definitely wish they were here for me to practice with. But of course as a teen or tween growing up, you also have so many other concerns in your life, like your future and school that I’m just like, “Alright. Well, it wouldn’t really have been that realistic of me to really expect myself to be proficient in Cantonese at the ripe age of 13 when I’m growing up in like the United States or something.”

I do wish that I was able to utilize more of the language back then, so I regret that in that regard. I guess the only thing I don’t regret is realizing that hey, now that they’re gone, it’s up to you to hold on to it and pass it down. I feel like now that that pressure is a little bit more on me, I’m more motivated to, you know, practice it more, go out on my out on my own to, like, celebrate certain holidays or go out and eat at certain restaurants and have, like, dim sum on my own without my parents or without my family being the one dragging me to the restaurant or something. So there is some sort of like enjoyment in that with initiating my own desire to, you know, go to a dim sum restaurant and try to order things by myself.

Yeah. It’s one of the one of the struggles of being the, I guess, grandchildren or even great grandchildren of immigrants. Like, how much of culture needs to come from within, to really bring it in, and how much is kind of put upon you?

ML: Yeah, exactly. So it’s a struggle, but I’m working on it.

Is that part something you hoping to explore with Meesh, either in this book or the next book? That reconnection to a culture that you’ve kind of…not been disconnected from because like in “Meesh the Bad Demon” she’s very much enamored with fairy culture and doesn’t really feel connected to both demon culture or demon things like acid spitting or fire breathing.

I love that panel of horn sharpening, by the way. One of my favorites.

ML: Thank you, haha.

Is that something that you hope to do more with? Like having Meesh pick what fits for her best?

ML: I can see what you’re saying. That’s definitely something I was trying to explore in my book, where I was trying to subtly speak about my relationship with my Asian identity or something like that. But I didn’t want to be too obvious about it either. Because I don’t, and this could be a whole other conversation, but I was like, I really want to make a book but not have it be about this standard Asian immigrant story, which is totally valid and I love people who create stories about their personal experiences. But for me, I want to make a book, but not feel like I’m pressured to just make that story just because I’m Asian. I want to make my own fantastical world and not just have to make a book about another Asian immigrant backstory just because I’m Asian and in order for me to go make other stories, I have to tell this story first.

I was like, No. I just want to make my own story purely from my imagination but I also do want to still recognize the struggle with, you know, my cultural identities, so I kind of did implement that with Meesh. She’s, you know, she grows up as a demon but she doesn’t necessarily appreciate herself as a demon. It’s kind of like how when I grew up, I really didn’t think too much or appreciate myself being from a Chinese family either. Like, I used to be so sick of Chinese food, because I was like, oh my god, I eat this, like, all day, every day. I don’t want this anymore!

And you know, once I was taken away from that and I moved to California to go to art school, and there was like, literally not a lick of Asian food around us, I was just like: “Where am I? I need my home food or something like that.” And I feel like that’s kind of the journey Meesh goes on. She grows up in a world she doesn’t really truly appreciate just yet but the moment she leaves it, and she’s, like, faced with people pushing back against her as a demon, she’s kind of forced to learn to hold on to parts of herself. I guess it starts with her grandma but then later on she learns that, you know, “Hey. I actually enjoy partaking in demon activities. There are things about myself that make me special that I didn’t realize before but it took me leave home to really discover that.”

You didn’t want to…you didn’t set out to make an allegory but you wanted to keep it relatable.

ML:Yeah, pretty much like in that regard. It’s more of a very subtle symbolic thing.

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Yeah, sometimes the thing with the most connection is whatever you’ve grown up experiencing, in some small way.

ML:Yeah, pretty much. Because I was just like, I mean, I’m the type of person who prefers telling stories that I have somewhat experienced and I’m totally okay with morphing it into some fictional world but I guess when you draw back to the root of that character’s experience, I would prefer to have gone through it myself so that when I draw it, I know it’s somewhat realistic.

There are some, you know, experiences I’ve never experienced, like, God forbid, like, a plane crash. I don’t really know what it’s like to be in a plane crash. I hope nobody has to ever go through something like that. But you know, it’s an experience I’ll never understand but certain people who do survive incidents like that can recount the tales in such specific ways that I feel like if I talked about an experience I never experienced, it just feels a little too, like, forced or too fake. So that’s kind of why I like approaching stories with what I experienced first, and then maybe later on I can get to the point of, you know, interviewing people and seeing what they experienced and making stories about that.

Kind of expanding out?

ML: Yeah, for sure.

Okay. Last question. And it’s a little bit of a silly one. but what do you think Bub Lava tastes like?

ML: Bub Lava. Okay, haha.

So, Bub Lava is actually inspired by boba, which is a very popular Taiwanese drink, which is everywhere now. In the past when I grew up, I drank boba all the time, and the way that I would envision it would taste like would just probably be…maybe passion fruit? Like something tangy and somewhat sour but also kind of sweet with random jelly things inside, which might put some people off, but other people enjoy it.

Growing up, you know, as a kid, boba was not popular back then for sure. In fact, people were like, what are those weird things inside your drink? What are those weird floating things? And I just be like, “Oh, that’s like tapioca or that’s like jelly or-

It’s the good stuff.

ML: Yeah! It’s the meat of the drink. That’s what I would tell other people. And then as time went on, I just can’t even handle sugar the same way I did before so I don’t really drink it as much, but now it’s like, Oooh, everybody loves boba. So I’m just like, “Well. Well. Well. Look at how the turntables turn” or whatever.

So for me, Bub Lava is kind of just like the demon version of boba. It’s kind of the same thing where no one really cared for it at first, but then once you show it to some people, they’ll be like, “Oh my gosh, this drink is so good. What the heck?”