The webcomic creator is never far from their audience. Be it through social media, public email addresses, Discord servers, or simply the comments section beneath a page, there is a rapport and a conversation that is developed that is unique to the medium. We’re continuing those conversations here, albeit a little more formally, by interviewing webcomics creators to pick their brains about craft, storytelling, and their personal experiences with the medium.
It’s been a bit since our last one of these. It’s good to be back. And it’s even better to be back talking to longtime “Ava’s Demon” creator Michelle Fus about the comic, it’s impact, and the brand new release courtesy of Skybound. We also touched on the kickstarter but I didn’t wanna retread our previous, wonderful interview with Michelle. Thanks again to Michelle for chatting and for Skybound for facilitating!
How exciting is it to have your book out in the wider world now?
Michelle Fus: It’s really exciting. I’m just gonna be honest. It’s actually really hard for me to get excited but there are some things that impact me more. Like today I’m going to try to go to Barnes and Noble to see it in person so that’ll be like a big milestone for me. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, this isn’t the first time you’ve had this material in print. Correct?
MF: Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, it technically is because I self published it the first few times but it was never in stores. It wasn’t anything official. So this is the first time that it’ll be officially published, out in the world.
So how did that come about? Because I know that you ran a Kickstarter for this through Skybound. And those copies came out…was it last year? A few months ago? And now it’s getting the wide release.
MF: I was just lucky that Skybound took an interest in it because otherwise, I had just been putting out and into the world myself. I think they wanted an opportunity to redo everything, to be able to put it into stores, and that’s why we ran the next two Kickstarters after the first two that I had done by myself, on my own.
When you say redo, what do you mean?
MF: Put it in a different format. The first two books, I had only two panels per page. So these next two books are basically the entirety of the comic that I have written with eight panels per page. A more traditional comic book format.
I don’t know if you’ve read it on the website but it basically goes one panel at a time in a storyboard format. They took the opportunity to make it into a more traditional, readable comic for print.
How involved were you in that part of the process? Were you the one making the changes with the layout? Or did you provide them with the art and they handled the formatting?
MF: Oh, no. It was me and two other artists from Skybound, essentially, working together to reformat it into something that I still felt was appropriate for the comic I had written and also for a broader audience that may not have read it online.
I know there were multimedia aspects of the webcomic. Was it difficult to reformat those for print? Or was it fairly simple?
MF: It’s pretty simple. I had gone into those parts of the comic online with the intention to print them at some point. So, you know, you could break down the videos into just boards on their own and the multimedia parts we made sure to present inside the book appropriate to how they’re presented on the website. It’s not too hard because most of it is images in the end anyway. So it works out.
To switch away from that and more towards the the comic itself, “Ava’s Demon” is, in my head, one of those web comics that’s been around since the “golden age of webcomics,” if we’re going to call it that. So I’m curious what your experiences with webcomics were like before you started publishing it. Not in print, but out for the world to see.
Continued belowMF: I have to think about that. It’s been so long.
I’ve always been interested in comics. Growing up, I was really interested in comics. I used to read and enjoy Johan Vasquez’s stuff. I read a lot of manga growing up. I’m still kind of into that. I think what happened was I got pushed into going into a area of art that I could make sure I could get a job in, so that I could live on my own. Then once I got into that job area, I realized I still really loved comics. So I tried to incorporate what I learned from animation into telling my own story using the web, which, as you can see, it became its own economy.
When you’re talking about the golden age, I really think it was like the golden age of being able to create a career for yourself using only the internet and not having to sort of break through the gates of certain areas, if you understand what I mean.
So I wanted to get better at art and I wanted to try to see if I could create something that mimicked storyboarding in a way. I’d always really been interested in HTML and making websites so I did that. And it was a hobby at first, while I had a job. It just grew into something bigger. I wasn’t really out to like make a webcomic as much as I was just to create my own story and the web was the most convenient way to do that.
And it’s kind of kind of ballooned from there?
MF: Yeah, it kind of took off in a way I didn’t think would happen.
Was it kind of scary when that happened? Or was it something that you were glad to see?
MF: It was a little scary. I was happy that it happened because I think deep down, I really wanted to make art and I felt like I wasn’t doing that at the time as far as my career went. I think I saw it as an opportunity to finally do what I really wanted to do, which was to create art and tell stories. It was a great thing that happened, when it took off.
It was scary having all those eyes on you. It’s still something I struggle with a little bit.
The kind of fan interaction or just the knowledge that a lot of people are coming to the work?
MF: A little bit of both. It’s a lot, putting yourself out into the world, and I know that a lot of people have that fear also. It kind of never leaves you when you’re putting something out there and suddenly everybody knows what it is. A lot of people have that fear – and it’s a justified fear – of putting yourself out there, that I still deal with.
How much does social media play a role in that, do you think? Versus, say, the comment section underneath one of your updates? Although, if I remember correctly, I don’t think there is one on “Ava’s Demon?”
MF: I don’t have one. Yeah.
It’s definitely a monster. I’ve learned to interact minimally, with everything that’s going on. And if people enjoy it, they enjoy it. And if they don’t, they don’t. It’s okay.
Did you construct the website? Because you said you had learned some of the HTML. Did you construct yours from scratch to fit what your vision was for for the comic?
MF: Yes, I did. I did have some help over the years, from various people who understand, like, PHP and Java. But the overall design is kind of what I was going for. I wanted to make it immersive, as if not just the comic is the story, but the entire website is the story. And so there are elements that aid the storytelling built into the website.
Is there any of that you were sad to see go when it moved to print? Or did you try to incorporate it in different ways?
MF: I think it’s just different in print because on the website, it’s supposed to mimic a book anyway. To put it in a book is kind of the ultimate form of it being told, right? Because you’re already insinuating digitally that it’s in a book. So I feel like not a lot was lost but I feel like there is a different experience in reading it online, if you do notice those details.
Continued belowThere’s something, at least for me, there’s something fun about holding a physical item, as much as I love reading digitally.
MF: I agree. I agree. I’m really excited that it’s in print. There really is something special about being able to own it. There is something about a screen that kind of separates you from anything that you’re looking at, in a weird way. Because you can shut it off and it’s gone, right? But the book is physical. It’s always there.
I know that as a kid I would carry around comics to school wherever I went so that you kind of have that source of comfort with you instead of having to wait and go on the computer and look at something. I think that’s a big difference between the two.
For sure. The tactility is nice. To wrap the two ideas together, you had mentioned earlier, and I was just curious, which manga titles were some of the ones that you enjoyed reading or that played a small or a large part in in the story?
MF: So I was a “Naruto” kid. I really love “Naruto. I really loved “Magic Knight Rayearth.” I really loved all the works by CLAMP. There are some there were some other things I was really into that I can’t remember off the top of my head right now. “Naruto” was definitely a big one. “Sailor Moon” was a big one. “Cardcaptor Sakura” was another big one that I was really into. Just worlds that I could escape to and imagine myself as someone completely different for a little bit when things get tough, you know?
Yeah. Those are all stories that have these large expansive casts and the kind of a decompressed storytelling that kind of fits webcomics, I think.
MF: Yeah. People still read, I’m not sure it’s legal, but people still read manga online. I think comics in general, they’re kind of elevated past the internet as well. Because it’s just such a simple form of storytelling that no matter where you read it, you can be immersed completely. I don’t know where I was going with that. I’m sorry. I just think about how they transcend all forms of medium. Like, whether they’re printed or they’re on a screen or they’re animated.
You can kind of forget how you’re interfacing with them. Whereas with, like, text you can really feel it more with a screen.
MF: Yeah, possibly. Yeah.
To kind of get into the story and the the world and everything with “Ava’s Demon” a little bit more. Long view – did you have your ending point in mind when you were starting it? Was it something that you were going along with, seeing where it took you? Was it something that you had the long view in mind already?
MF: I have it all written. I have an ending that I want to come to, whether or not I’ll get to that ending exactly. Like I have it all written out, you know? I don’t have it not planned. It’s not like I’m flying by the seat of my pants or anything when making it. It’s just easier for me to have a goal in mind and to have multiple points within the work that I want to come to. For me to get there, it’s easier to have those goals already planned out. Even if I kind of meander or change them over time, it keeps me organized to have the story in mind.
Would you ever want to give an estimate about how far in you are?
MF: I’d say like 30 to 40%? I’ve said around 40%, almost halfway there. I just have a few things that I want to put into it and I want to reach cool milestones. I have a plan. If I didn’t have a plan, I probably wouldn’t keep doing it.
Have you taken any major detours as you went?
MF: No, not really. Actually, I’ve cut stuff out. It gets to the point where it’s like, does this really help the story? I really do have to get to the more important parts that I have planned and I have to stop veering off, right? So I do cut stuff out. And I think that happens for a lot of different stories that get told. You’ll see cut scenes for movies all the time and you’ll be like, “Alright. I understand why they changed that. Why they took that out.” It’s just kind of the natural process that you go through when you’re telling a story.
Continued belowEspecially with as many interwoven plot threads as there are in this. Like, in volume one alone, I think they’re four different threads we’re following? I think?
MF: Sure [laughs]. I mean, each of the characters has their own kind of story through which I want to tell. But I try to keep it as simple as possible.
Are there any big themes you enjoy exploring via the characters?
MF: Just their inner worlds, the true person that they are within themselves is the overall theme for each of them that I tried to get really into. I always liked the idea of the surface level of a person is not the entire world that they are, that there are much deeper, more complex things that make up who they are and I like to explore that as literal worlds within them in their mindscapes.
When you were designing those mindscapes what’s kind of the process for creating the visuals?
MF: Just based on the story that I want to tell for each of them, which kind of goes hand in hand with the fairy tales that I like to think about when it comes to each of the characters. Like for Maggie, it’s “Beauty and the Beast.” She is Beauty and the Beast, right? Which is, you know, her and then Tuls. And then there’s the rose, which is the object of, or the source of, her trouble. So each of the characters I try to do that with them.
Do you ever go out and look at specific environments for inspiration? What are some of the references you use?
MF: I don’t really go out and search for places but I try to visit as many really cool places as I can in real life when I can afford it. I do like going out into nature, to be honest, and I like exploring old places. There will be old mansions that will visit or gardens. There are flower farms that we visit that I really enjoy. I’ve been to a few different places recently that I really loved, which was Poland. We went to Poland because my husband is from Poland and we took pictures of all the castles and all the old architecture, which was really cool.
I guess it’s nothing specific. I also really like to look at really old design. Like vintage design and vintage fashion. I feel like there are some points in history where it really peaked and I like to take inspiration from that.
Like Victorian, Edwardian eras? Art Deco?
MF: Some of that. A lot of stuff from the 60s, 70s, 80s. Like Memphis. It’s hard because it’s been so long. It’s been like 12 years now. So, over time, all the information I’ve absorbed has just resulted in the stuff I create and it’s hard to remember exactly where I was inspired by.
What’s your process for creating a page?
MF: Well first, I write it out. First, I think about the scene and I write out a script. Then I try to break that script down into a certain number of panels and I try to strike a balance between how many panels I put out and how much information I put into them and whether or not there are beats in between that I have to hit with art or whatever. Like, if you need a break, if the pacing is off. Then as I’m drawing it, I might add or subtract a few panels to keep up with the pacing.
What is the physical process of it? Are you working completely digitally? How do you color that kind of stuff?
MF: I do a completely digitally because I’m doing it any other way would take a lot more time than I have. Because if I were to just do it by hand, and then scan it in, that’s a whole different process that is not as quick as just opening Photoshop. Taking pictures of myself in the mirror for poses and referencing myself as for poses, it’s much easier when you can just keep it all in one place, which in this case is digitally, in Photoshop, on my computer.
Continued belowIf I had more time, I’d really like to paint stuff by hand in real life, that would be nice. But that’s what I use other other opportunities for. Like for the Kickstarter, I get to do ink drawings and oil paintings for fans.
Do you find the process of drawing relaxing?
MF: It can be.
I guess when you don’t have a time deadline.
MF: Yeah, when I don’t have deadlines. It’s very satisfying when you finally reach a point where you’re really proud of the drawing that you made. But that can be short lived because you’re always striving to get better than the last thing that you drew.
The process is of making panels is kind of like when you make a mandala out of sand, and then you just blow it away. Except I get to keep the mandala. So every panel is one more stepping stone in the process of trying to get better at art. That’s how I look at it.
That’s a good one. One of the things I have noticed, at least in Volume One is the uniqueness of your lettering. Do you letter by hand? Do you have set fonts? How are you constructing those and what was kind of the some of the thought process behind making the unique balloons and stylings?
MF: Immediately going into it, I made a font. Like I said, this was a hobby. This was a side project. I didn’t want to spend too much time lettering. I’m not really from a comics background, right? I’m not good at writing. I have to put all of my concentration into making stuff readable. So I was just like, I’m just gonna make a font. I bought a font program, and I made a font. And that way, I only have to write everything once.
There wasn’t much thought put into it other than I wanted to imagine that it was the main character of writing it. So I made a handwritten looking type of font. With the balloons, I color coded them because I wanted to make sure the reader understood who was talking at what time and not to mix up any of the speech bubbles because I knew that the format I was going into was an experiment so it would be good to have color coded speech bubbles and text for each character so that you always know who’s who’s saying what.
Do you think the experiments paid off?
MF: I think so. I don’t know. Every day I’m learning as I make this comic. I learned a lot just from putting it into a book format, where all the panels are much smaller than they appear online. So for the future going into it, I might do it just a little bit differently so that we can continue to make more and better books.
Alrighty. And just to close us out, I have two more questions. The first is, what are three webcomics that you would recommend for readers of “Ava’s Demon?”
MF: I’m gonna take the opportunity to talk about my friend’s webcomic called “Colorless,” who does a little bit of the same kind of thing that I do except she makes killer animations for her comic. Like fully animated drawings. They’re just beautiful. That’s the only webcomic I’m going to talk about right now. Because there’s only so many things that I read nonstop and I’d like you all to check out “Colorless.” It’s very good. And they’re also on webtoon.
If there’s one scene from the first volume that you would recommend to people who might not be sure if they want to read it, other than just starting to read it, that would sell them on the book, what would it be? Or maybe just one character?
MF: I think the one scene that they would have to read from the book, that I feel they would really like, is when Ava puts on the limbo lenses and finally sees her friend, Maggie as the demon that’s inside of her, which is Tuls, when they’re on the ship. I feel like that was a big moment in the first book for me to get to because it starts to connect the characters to each other more than they normally are connected to each other. I feel like that’s the scene that people should look at.
